Are you saying they are legally unable to disclose the terms of their contract for life? And that presumably they must also be legally unable to even disclose the fact that they are under such an NDA, since not one of them has ever said "I can't talk about money, I'm under NDA"? Hopefully Goku will be able to answer this since he has the Bellator contract to Alvarez, a literal duplicate of the UFC contract.
But we don't even need a breakdown of their terms in any case...most of us are just talking about a broad "how much they make".
For example, when GSP said in an interview not long ago: "For me, a fight is (worth) $4-to-$5 million."
By the way, no need to post a contract (it's their intellectual property I'm sure). But just stating general terms I'm sure is fine. I don't think Heath is getting re-signed any time soon.
"Guarantee you that every single one of those guys still holds out a small amount of hope that maybe one day they'll get another shot in the UFC."
So what you're saying is that the greatest repercussions are reserved for saying how much you make/made. All other badmouthing is fair game. Complaining about low pay is fine, saying you made $500k per fight will get you banned for life. And you also aren't allowed to say that you aren't allowed to talk about your money.
Why has not one fighter, EVER, said that he is not allowed to talk about money?
P.S. George Roop detailed his earnings, including show/win money, of the night bonuses, "discretionary" bonuses (the infamous "locker room" bonuses), and sponsorship money. He wasn't cut (despite losing) and is still in the UFC. In the same article, Volkmann also details his earnings, and is also continuing to fight in the UFC despite his revelations and despite his loss to Sass.
Obviously these guys can talk about it if they want to. As in most walks of life, the ones making big money don't want to broadcast it (except GSP apparently who had no problem saying he makes $4-5 million per fight).
We give fighters leverage. If we want to see them bad enough or will no matter pay or not miss his/her fight. Dana will do what he must to make it happen.
"Did George Roop or Jacob Volkmann come out and say "The UFC contracts suck and I'm getting a raw deal"? Of course not. Does that mean there aren't fighters on the UFC roster who feel that way but would never go public about it for fear of being blackballed? No it doesn't."
Plenty of fighters both in and out of the UFC complain about their bad UFC deals on the high and low ends of the scale, according to posts in this thread. Fighters on the low end have publicly detailed exactly how much they made. GSP has publicly ballparked his total take. Benson was just publicly complaining about Eddie's publicly-known deal (kind of implying it was superior to his own) and then signed a new deal he is "HAPPY" about (by the way, as champion, he was not obligated to be given a superior deal to his old one afaik). Not one fighter ever has said they are told not to talk about money or been pressured not to.
I don't know how you get from this that they are pressured not to talk about it by the UFC, or that Dana is lying when he says they are free to talk about how much they make.
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
Who is signing long term contracts that aren't top notch fighters who have no reason to fight somewhere besides the UFC?
+1
The UFC are not handing them out either. Only a select few, such as Champions and or ex-Champions are getting these type of lucrative offers.
There's plenty of fighters with long terms contracts. Pretty sure a bunch of tuf guys are on low paying long term contracts. Pretty sure benson was on a long term low paying contract.
I need examples. The tuf guys are getting screwed with long term contracts? Even guys like Cody McKenzie are making 10 and 10, almost twice as much as they would make upon entry to the UFC without tuf given their talent level.
Benson was getting 39 and 39, from a contract he either signed as a non champion or before he wasn't even in the UFC. I don't really see how he got screwed because he signed a "long term deal." Normally it's the athletes who want long term commitment.
You think Brandon Vera makes 70k to show against Shogun without getting that deal a long time ago with a long term contract? Does he even make more than 20 and 20 without that long term deal? Guillard is making 41 and 41 and is 1-4 in his last 5. He lost 3 fights in under 5 minutes combined. Does he make that much without the long term deal?
Just looked at the contract. There is a standard confidentiality clause that prohibits fighters from disclosing any information relating to the terms of the contract. So yeah technically saying how much you earn is a breach.
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -
Who is signing long term contracts that aren't top notch fighters who have no reason to fight somewhere besides the UFC?
+1
The UFC are not handing them out either. Only a select few, such as Champions and or ex-Champions are getting these type of lucrative offers.
There's plenty of fighters with long terms contracts. Pretty sure a bunch of tuf guys are on low paying long term contracts. Pretty sure benson was on a long term low paying contract.
I need examples. The tuf guys are getting screwed with long term contracts? Even guys like Cody McKenzie are making 10 and 10, almost twice as much as they would make upon entry to the UFC without tuf given their talent level.
Benson was getting 39 and 39, from a contract he either signed as a non champion or before he wasn't even in the UFC. I don't really see how he got screwed because he signed a "long term deal." Normally it's the athletes who want long term commitment.
You think Brandon Vera makes 70k to show against Shogun without getting that deal a long time ago with a long term contract? Does he even make more than 20 and 20 without that long term deal? Guillard is making 41 and 41 and is 1-4 in his last 5. He lost 3 fights in under 5 minutes combined. Does he make that much without the long term deal?
To take benson for example. Benson was getting paid half of what someone who is not a draw and has never stepped foot in the octagon was offered. In Lyman's terms that's getting screwed. Yes UFC made good by renegotiating but they had zero obligation to do so.
They don't need to say how much they are contractually paid. Isn't half the issue people have the non-contractual "discretionary bonuses"? Those aren't in the contract. If a fighter says he made $50k for a fight including locker room bonuses, how is that disclosing the terms of the contract? GSP said he makes $4-5 million per fight, that's not really disclosing contract terms. We have no idea how much of that is discretionary bonuses, how much is PPV cut, etc.
Were Roop and Volkmann in breach of contract when they said how much they were paid for several fights, including show, win, bonus, and discretionary bonus?
"Yes UFC made good by renegotiating but they had zero obligation to do so."
Similarly, they have zero obligation to give a fighter a better contract once his old one expires. Their incentive in both cases is to get and keep quality, happy fighters on their roster.
What do the contracts say about how long a fighter has to sit out before signing with another org? Like if a guy has a deal for 6 fights and 2 years, let's say he fights 3 times in the first year and then is fed up with his pay and wants to fight somewhere else because the UFC won't renegotiate. Does he just have to wait until the 2 years or up before he can sign elsewhere? Or is there an additional period after that?
They don't need to say how much they are contractually paid. Isn't half the issue people have the non-contractual "discretionary bonuses"? Those aren't in the contract. If a fighter says he made $50k for a fight including locker room bonuses, how is that disclosing the terms of the contract? GSP said he makes $4-5 million per fight, that's not really disclosing contract terms. We have no idea how much of that is discretionary bonuses, how much is PPV cut, etc.
Were Roop and Volkmann in breach of contract when they said how much they were paid for several fights, including show, win, bonus, and discretionary bonus?
fighters are prohibited from disclosing any information relating to the terms....compensation is a term...so yes, people that talk about their pay are technically breaching...whats funny is that the confidentiality provision doesnt even have a standard exception for information that is already publicly known...so even though show/win money is publicly known by virtue of athletic commission rules, the fighter isnt supposed to talk about it...
"Yes UFC made good by renegotiating but they had zero obligation to do so."
Similarly, they have zero obligation to give a fighter a better contract once his old one expires. Their incentive in both cases is to get and keep quality, happy fighters on their roster.
What do the contracts say about how long a fighter has to sit out before signing with another org? Like if a guy has a deal for 6 fights and 2 years, let's say he fights 3 times in the first year and then is fed up with his pay and wants to fight somewhere else because the UFC won't renegotiate. Does he just have to wait until the 2 years or up before he can sign elsewhere? Or is there an additional period after that?
zero obligation but much more incentive..if they have a champ that has fought the last fight of his extended term, then you bet your ass they have a very good incentive to gicve the fighter a new contract and on richer terms than if the champ was still bound to fight 5x more...
for alvarez's contract he is bound to stay with the ufc for the earlier of 40 months after his first fight or 8 fights...plus ufc has right to match for 1 year after that..so really, if you wanted to sit out a contract like that it would take you like 4 years if you are early on
If a fighter's contract says $30k to show, $30k to win, but in an interview he says he made $140k for his last fight, how is that disclosing terms of his contract?
I'm going to withdraw from the debate because honestly I barely remember the topic. I was apparently wrong on the NDA although many fighters have said how much they make, sometimes in explicit detail of the breakdown.
If a fighter's contract says $30k to show, $30k to win, but in an interview he says he made $140k for his last fight, how is that disclosing terms of his contract?
fighters arent prohibited from disclosing the terms, they are prohibited from disclosing "any information with respect to the terms and provisions" of the agreement, which is broader than just the terms....by talking about his aggregate pay, he is implicitly giving information with respect to the terms of his contract...now the reality is that zuffa isnt going to sue or cut a fighter for this, but technically you would have a good argument the fighter is in breach
