Wow! This is the UG, man. You're not supposed to admit you're wrong! :)
My bad. Too much time on the OG. Wait...
I felt that Frank did an awesome job of standing up with a superior striker. However, Le is definitely the better stand up fighter and Frank couldnt keep him on the ground. Le is going to have a hard time finding good competition in elitexc.
That was a hell of a good fight.
Le's takedown defense > shape of Frank's knees.
You know I'm kinda puzzled reading the reactions to this fight so far. Granted, I'm highly biased on the Frank side, and I still have some of my anti-Cung Le piss and vinegar left from the annoying undercard of shitty K-1 PPV days, but I can put all that aside when its time to break down a fight, what with being a sociopath and all.
I don't get how anybody thinks that Frank got his ass kicked. He fought a guy who I wouldn't expect to be able to beat half of the top 20 guys Frank can, AND who has a pretty nasty styles make fights advantage, lost the 2nd due to those kicks which can mostly be filed under "annoying foot tag stuff the karate guy does at a kickboxing gym for at least 2 months," but won the 1st IMO (Unless I'm seriously remembering it wrong), and came within a hair of finishing Cung Le at least once, maybe twice, and very arguably, 1.5 times. (don't ask...)
I never expected Frank to be able to take Cung Le down, at least consistently enough to make a game plan out of it, and I'm fairly certain that Frank knew and accepted that. I expected people to be really surprised at how much better Frank's stand up would be against Le than they expected, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see Frank KO him (which he almost did) after getting outpointed. Cung Le has a lot of tools on his feet, is a great wrestler, has great throws, but doesn't have the type of KO power you'd expect, nor the most ability at sealing the deal with strikes that you'd expect.
Frank has a similar dilemma on the feet, as he's a great striker, but he doesn't have the vicious KO power of other guys, he's a great grappler, but he doesn't have elite level takedowns or takedown defense. So I figured it'd come down to striking, and any groundwork would either be quick or a few seconds before the ref jumps in to stop the fight. (i.e. someone goes down, the other guy pounces, the fat lady sings)
The only outcomes I saw for this fight were a.)Frank via stoppage or TKO, b.)Le via decision, c.)Le or Frank via some sort of freak TKO
call me crazy, I think I was right on just about all counts. Frank didn't get his ass kicked, he broke his arm blocking a kick. (Shit happens, even though that may have had owed a bit more credit to Le than it does chance...even in the first round, I was getting this creepy Roufus/Hoost II flashback, and thought to myself "Oh dear god I hope he doesn't think that blocking kicks all night is a good idea.") Aside from the sidekicks and other MOSTLY showy stuff, he was matching Cung Le on the feet, and just about scored a KTFO.
I'd really like to see a rematch. These guys match up great. Even if you hate Frank, you have to admit that.
nobody knows what would have happened if this fight had continued
I do... Frank would hav COLLAPSED. He was in soooo much pain. You could see it on his face. That kick that broke his arm was hard as fuck. The whole crowd was in AWWWW!
"nobody knows what would have happened if this fight had continued
I do... Frank would hav COLLAPSED. He was in soooo much pain. You could see it on his face. That kick that broke his arm was hard as fuck. The whole crowd was in AWWWW!"
I second that notion. Fighting with a broken hand is one thing, fighting with a broken wrist/forearm is quite different. Plus, once you have a moment to cool down and realize that you're seriously hurt, it's all that you think can think about.
Speaking of which, I've always been amazed by how people can compete in those 2-3 day tournaments, be it BJJ or Abu Dhabi style grappling, MMA, or Kyokushinkai Karate. The morning after rough ass competition like that is right up with there with the morning after every 21-year-old guy has in the liquor store, and thinks "Hey, Bacardi 151 tastes like shit anyways...SO why don't I just buy the MONARCH 151? I MEAN, IT'S LIKE $3 LESS!"
Frank just set up a hell of a rematch and probably a lot of $$$$... I never thought he'd carry the heel roll so far as to lose fights, but it does make some sense when compared with the way he promotes himself.
He chose to stand and he suffered a loss, it was not a KO, maybe he's far enough down his career to think all that happens is his L column goes from 6 to 7.
Anyway, a rematch in which he'll implement a submission strategy will happen, and I guess we should be excited.
The only time Frank committed to a take down is when Le gave it to him (via the folded kick when Le fell). Who WOULDN'T go for that? Frank went for the choke but 3 seconds later when he saw Le wasn't in trouble he let go and continued to fight standing. That's it folks.
Could Frank have won if he would have constantly went for the takedown? Maybe, we'll never know because Frank's pride got in the way of fighting smart.
Le got the win the second Frank decided he was going to kickbox.
Frank had no problem throwing punches with that "broken arm" when he stunned Le. Then later on in the round lee hit him in the head with that kick and fucked him up.
Frank went out like a little bitch. If that round would have had a minute more or less in it then Cung would have KOCKED HIM OUT.
Frank is a bitch with a big EGO.
Biased much? Frank took TONS of shots from LE and kept coming for more. He got kicked full force a number of times in the face by Le. He never went down. His arm was broken in the last 10 seconds of that fight, not before! Try to anaylize fights with your brain, not your biase.
Brian.. why don't you do the same? I have no problem saying I was going for Cung. However are you going to tell me that the last kick he threw didnt visibly "ROCK" Shamrock? Frank didnt want anymore after that. I'm not buying the broken arm bit for a second. Frank almost got KTFO after that kick. The bell saved his ass.
Now Brian.. why don't you admit you were rooting for Frank and have your blinders on?
Frank took plenty of shots and kept coming back for more there is no question about that. I'm not denying it at all. However, once he took a real big shot to the jaw that rocked him he didnt want anymore. Thats the bottom line. Go back and watch the last kick and tell me your boy pussy didnt get busted.
imol frank was very gassed at the end of r3 from trying to finish cung
"Could Frank have won if he would have constantly went for the takedown? Maybe, we'll never know because Frank's pride got in the way of fighting smart."
We do know. In training, Frank couldn't take Le down. Both fighters KNEW Le was the better wrestler. This is just like Liddell vs. Tito. The only shot Frank and Tito had was to score a KO because they couldn't get the takedown. And they both knew it.
"I'm not buying the broken arm bit for a second."
There's an x-ray on the UG of Frank's arm. It's broken. The ulna is snapped in half.
I 100% agree with Dagwood Dogwoggle, his Ego got him his ass handed to him and his arm broken, I believe the term Frank used was "MMA Striking" and he was going to beat Cung Le at his own game, TTT for Cung Le
They are clueless to footwork and distance.
They only closed the distance a few times in regards to clinching.
I won't admit to anything because I don't give two shits about Frank Shamrock.
"I won't admit to anything because I don't give two shits about Frank Shamrock."
LOL, same. I'm almost vicariously supporting him, but LOL@That 'can't take him down". It was like 5 or 6 years ago they trained, to not even think about the td and sub game was Frank's fault. His ego's fault.