After the Daley fight, people are again saying that grapplers need to forget about their stand up and concentrate on the take down. But it ain't that easy. The days of wrestlers shooting at will are gone.
Takedown defense is much better nowadays. MMA is truly mixed and very few fighters at the UFC level have piss poor take down defense.
GSP is a good example of a guy who sets up his takedowns well. Not surprising he's on top of the pound for pound lists.
Hazelett didn't stand and bang because he wanted to beat Daley on the feet. He wanted to set up the takedown but got caught.
"He wanted to set up the takedown but got caught."
This is a myth that keeps getting parroted
Explain how he tried to setup a takedown by staying outside that range and throwing kicks that served no purpose in helping set up a takedown?
He had several minutes to work his gameplan but he was too comfortable on his feet and got caught by a superior striker
Same with Maia, he threw a sloppy kick that was countered. That was no setup for a takedown, it was a sloppy kick
"This is a myth that keeps getting parroted"
I think the real myth is that grapplers can somehow magically avoid every punch and kick thrown by master strikers if only they would not throw any punches and kicks themselves and instead just immediately charge. Doesn't work that way.
Submission-oriented guys like Hazelett must have really, really good offensive grappling (shoots, throws, trips, guard pulling etc) in order to success in modern MMA.
Maia failed to implement his normal game plan in the Marquardt fight and he paid for it.
People who've been grappling for a long time - especially wrestlers who've been doing it from a fairly young age, like Sherk and others - get bored of what they know and fancy themselves to be knockout artists. Hughes put it perfectly around the time of the second BJ fight when he kept saying "I really want to be a standup fighter! I see myself knocking people out."
It's the grappler's curse, and it can only be held at bay by reciting that gay "grappler's prayer" someone wrote.
Now I lay YOU down to sleep!!!!
Hazelett did nothing to even attempt to set up a takedown, it was a slow first round spent on the outside, and then he chose to stand square in the pocket and trade haymakers.
Moronic.
I'm going to post further about this idea later today.
I think the problem is not takedowns, but grapplers will need to find ways to better keep position and prevent their opponents from standing up.
Kai Tremeche - I'm going to post further about this idea later today
LOL
Look at Nog vs Crocop. Nog tried like hell to take CC down and got brutalized in the process.
"Cro Cop slipped on some water that sperry threw on the mat"
Crazy Zimmerman - After the Daley fight, people are again saying that grapplers need to forget about their stand up and concentrate on the take down. But it ain't that easy. The days of wrestlers shooting at will are gone.
Takedown defense is much better nowadays. MMA is truly mixed and very few fighters at the UFC level have piss poor take down defense.
GSP is a good example of a guy who sets up his takedowns well. Not surprising he's on top of the pound for pound lists.
Hazelett didn't stand and bang because he wanted to beat Daley on the feet. He wanted to set up the takedown but got caught.
I understand what you're saying, and it applies to some matches. But Hazelett wasn't setting up shit. If he had been you would have seen him throw, then change levels, etc.
I still haven't heard an explanation about Dustin's double somersault at the beginning of the fight. Was that a leg lock setup attempt? Daley isn't somebody you goof around with. Surprised he didn't get KO'd right there.
u pretend like your gonna stand and wang by doing that for a bit, then as he comes in at u, shoot.
i dont think dustin had gotten to that point yet
Didnt they say Hazlett trained with Jorge Gurgel for the Daley fight? If so, there is your answer, he had Jorge calibrate a gameplan. We all know Jorge decides to play american kickboxer instead of brazilian black belt for some reason, even against strong standup fighters.
Rolling Savate Kick
and that was awesome btw
Miguel Torres has used it before as well
solidsnake - I still haven't heard an explanation about Dustin's double somersault at the beginning of the fight. Was that a leg lock setup attempt? Daley isn't somebody you goof around with. Surprised he didn't get KO'd right there.
Hazelett wanted to show that he was comin on IMO
I gotta run to work I dont have time to actually find one on youtube, here is one done in a pro wrestling match. They seem to work all the time in pro wrestling matches, in cage fights, not so often.
Mike Sanders -solidsnake - I still haven't heard an explanation about Dustin's double somersault at the beginning of the fight. Was that a leg lock setup attempt? Daley isn't somebody you goof around with. Surprised he didn't get KO'd right there.
Hazelett wanted to show that he was comin on IMO
Correct. And after the fight he drove his truck through the Mirage.
The problem is that guys do not KEEP THEIR HANDS UP. If you watch carefully, you will see that on each and every KO, the guy getting hit has his hands all over the place. No one in MMA brings their hands back to their head. The more punches in a combo, the lower the hands. Defense in striking has to be automatic. That means that is has to be part of the mechanics of the punch. That is the only way to do it each and every time. Most guys THINK that they are doing this, when in fact, they are not. Hence, all of the KOs.
"I think the real myth is that grapplers can somehow magically avoid every punch and kick thrown by master strikers if only they would not throw any punches and kicks themselves and instead just immediately charge. Doesn't work that way."
I dont remember anyone making such a claim. You claimed Hazelett was trying to setup his takedowns. I asked you how exactly does one setup their takedowns from outside that range and throw strikes that do not help with setups at all
Compare Hazelett to Rashad and Lauzon (in the first round)
Both of them stayed inside range and used their punches to setup their takedowns. Throwing push kicks does not help your setup, it simply means you are trying to strike your opponent, same with Maia