Why is everyone hating Obama when congress is.....

allowing this motherfucker to go start another war? Phone Post 3.0

Because he would act whether Congress approves or not.  He's the guy making the case as to why we need to strike and the case is bullshit.

LibraryCard - Are they?
They will. Phone Post 3.0

Garv -

Because he would act whether Congress approves or not.  He's the guy making the case as to why we need to strike and the case is bullshit.

So then why not say no and make him look like the #1 asshole rather than go along with him and share the blame? Phone Post

Syria Whip Count graphic090613.1-01

Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

Loadin76 - 
Garv -

Because he would act whether Congress approves or not.  He's the guy making the case as to why we need to strike and the case is bullshit.

So then why not say no and make him look like the #1 asshole rather than go along with him and share the blame? Phone Post



Many Republicans would love to but they face a problem if they do.  There are outside forces driving this decision, none of which have the interests of the American people at heart.  Israel, Saudi Arabia and the defense industry are all lobbying very hard for this action, and will be taking notes on who votes how. 



American politicians know where their bread is buttered and not too many of them have the courage of their convictions.  Instead they sell out America to the highest bidders.

When is the final vote?  I read there will be a Presidental address on Tuesday. 

Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0


It's bullshit because it's a pretext, like WMD in Iraq--with the same shaky intel.  We've been fomenting dissent in Syria for years.  Chaos is the ultimate goal.  We don't want a stable country with a strong leader who can form alliances with our adversaries.  We don't care how many kids die, so long as instability reigns.  So to pretend to cry at atrocities and say we must act out of morality  is hypocrisy at it's most disgusting.

Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0


First, because it's not even clear who used the weapons.  There's only evidence of their use, not their use by the Syrian government.  If the US attacks the government over this, but the use was actually by the rebels, what sort of message does that send?  Will that actually deter the use of chemical weapons, or encourage it?  



Second, because it's fucking ludicrous that blowing 100,000 people up with shrapnel and fire is ok, but killing 1400 with chemical weapons is way over the line.  Yes, they're terrible weapons, but conventional weapons kill people in pretty atrocious ways too.

Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

lets give Obama the benefit of the doubt and assume for shits n giggles that this isnt pretext.

If the rest of the world signed a pact to not use chemical weapons, than its the job of the international community to make decisions on action. Period.

If the US goes it alone, the rest of the world will never have to face the burden of action because they know they US will give its lives and money to any effort that might be required.

If American voters do not learn from this, then I will have lost all hope. If they do not learn that their politicians absolutely do not act in accordance with the will of the people, if they do not learn that the politicians are corrupt and interest driven..if they dont change who they vote for, then all hope is lost for the US as a nation IMO. Democracy is a whole other issue....

Garv - 
Loadin76 - 
Garv -

Because he would act whether Congress approves or not.  He's the guy making the case as to why we need to strike and the case is bullshit.

So then why not say no and make him look like the #1 asshole rather than go along with him and share the blame? Phone Post



Many Republicans would love to but they face a problem if they do.  There are outside forces driving this decision, none of which have the interests of the American people at heart.  Israel, Saudi Arabia and the defense industry are all lobbying very hard for this action, and will be taking notes on who votes how. 



American politicians know where their bread is buttered and not too many of them have the courage of their convictions.  Instead they sell out America to the highest bidders.



Agreed Garv, but every asshole that votes yes should be voted out of office.  Also have to love that regardless of this vote the pres can still do what he wants, so the whole point of having congress vote is just a show, and then when shit goes wrong they can point the finger elsewhere.

Garv -
Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

It's bullshit because it's a pretext, like WMD in Iraq--with the same shaky intel.  We've been fomenting dissent in Syria for years.  Chaos is the ultimate goal.  We don't want a stable country with a strong leader who can form alliances with our adversaries.  We don't care how many kids die, so long as instability reigns.  So to pretend to cry at atrocities and say we must act out of morality  is hypocrisy at it's most disgusting.

Garv bringing the sanity. Phone Post

Garv -

Because he would act whether Congress approves or not.  He's the guy making the case as to why we need to strike and the case is bullshit.

Dropping fucking knowledge Phone Post

Mencken -
Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

First, because it's not even clear who used the weapons.  There's only evidence of their use, not their use by the Syrian government.  If the US attacks the government over this, but the use was actually by the rebels, what sort of message does that send?  Will that actually deter the use of chemical weapons, or encourage it?  

Second, because it's fucking ludicrous that blowing 100,000 people up with shrapnel and fire is ok, but killing 1400 with chemical weapons is way over the line.  Yes, they're terrible weapons, but conventional weapons kill people in pretty atrocious ways too.

Better check that 1400 number as well. All other independent agencies put the number at less than 400.

This is a great example of repeating a lie enough and it becomes fact. Phone Post

Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

That's a big if.

Scenerio A) The syrian government (the ones with the huge upper hand in this war) suddenly decided..."you know what...we really really really need to kill these school children. Even though we know it will turn public op. against us, and bring down the hammer of the west on us and cost us the war...but I really really wanna kill these civilians this way (never mind that I have the capability to do it conventionally)".

Scenario B) The rebels (some of whom are known terrorist groups) are losing the war and are trying to find a way to turn the tide. Obama goes on TV and pretty much says he'll smash Assad if he uses chemical weapons. Rebels think "Hey let's get our sponsor states to get us some of that stuff so we can get the US to take care of Assad for us".

The administration is doing the same kind of dance we saw before the Iraq war. Secret "evidence" being shown to congress that proves Assad was behind the gassing. We are not privy to this information, but we have to trust it cause it's official government stuff. Somehow if we don't destroy Syria's government it's a threat to our security. Somehow it's safer for Israel if Islamist militants are in control of the country.

Sorry I'm not buying this line of shit again. So I'll ask this question again. If it turns out the child executing, priest beheading, heart eating rebels were the ones who released the gas will Obama fight them?

sparkyman - 
Garv -
Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

It's bullshit because it's a pretext, like WMD in Iraq--with the same shaky intel.  We've been fomenting dissent in Syria for years.  Chaos is the ultimate goal.  We don't want a stable country with a strong leader who can form alliances with our adversaries.  We don't care how many kids die, so long as instability reigns.  So to pretend to cry at atrocities and say we must act out of morality  is hypocrisy at it's most disgusting.

Garv bringing the sanity. Phone Post


not to mention the rest of the world has agreed that if a clear case existed that it would be okay to step up and take those suckers out.

as such an international team went in to take a look at things and didn't find that such a clear case existed.

Jacare's_Thunder_Buddy - Why is the case bullshit ? If the Syrian government used chemical weapons against their enemy , it should be the duty of the rest of the world to step up and take those suckers out. Phone Post 3.0

Let's see your proof?

But first, it appears you are not aware of this.But these "rebels" have cell phones and love to upload their antics. They have posted videos of these CIA trainees swearing allegiance to Al Qaeda, performing ethnic and religious cleansing, beheading and executing anyone they deem the opposition, and even shooting the very chemical weapons blamed on Assad.

Don't you think this "classified intelligence" is just a little shaky?

He's the one that initially proposed it you dumb bastard. Phone Post

Sagiv Lapkin -

Syria Whip Count graphic090613.1-01

So do I understand this to mean that the House is saying no to going to war? Phone Post