Why do almost all the people on this board hate Ken Shamrock, but love Royce Gracie? Royce sat back on his name and ducked all real fighters, Ken fought all comers. What if Ken, after beating Royce in their rematch (and we all know 3 judges would have given that fight to Ken), had stopped fighting real fights? From there on in Ken got one win every two years over a Kung Fu master. What if, at the same time, Gracie showed balls and stepped up to Hughes, Franklin, Tito, etc? He'd of gotten crushed by all of those guys and more! Would we then love Ken Shamrock and mock Royce Gracie?
To be fair, Royce gets a lot of "hate" on this forum, too. Personally, I'm not a big fan of either of them.
do you watch tuf
It's not like Royce would be a better coach (and yes, he was offered the oppurtunity). In my opinion, Royce would be even worse than Ken.
Rebel you speak the truth my friend!!
It always amazes me that so many americans on this forum prefer to nominate a Brazilian for the sainthood and take the piss out of an american legend who fought himself out of the streets to become a success in the world of MMA!!! I thought climbing oneself out of the gutter and making a success of oneself against the odds is part of the American spirit!!!
I know Royce did a huge ammount to put the sport on the map but he could have done way more by fighting way more and hence giving the fans what they deserve............more fights with him involved!!!
"In my opinion, Royce would be even worse than Ken." IMO it would be very difficult to be worse than Ken.
Even as a huge fan of Ken Shamrock i have to say he is a shit coach!! Maybe thats the real reason Frank fucked off from the lions den??
Dogman, Everyone knows that Ken is stuck in the past, but seriously, how is Royce Gracie any different?
Personally, I like them both. I think both of them have done a lot for the sport. Unfortunatly, with both of them, their time has past and they need to retire.
"Dogman, Everyone knows that Ken is stuck in the past, but seriously, how is Royce Gracie any different?"
Stuck in the past is one thing, but motivating people and trying to get the best performance out of them is another. I'm not sure Royce could modivate any better, but I don't think he could do worse.
I think Ken does try to motivate and help these guys, but his stubborness and arrogance keeps getting in the way. I also believe Royce would have the same problem. And I also believe that his training methods and beliefs are even more obsolete than Ken's.
I also think that Royce should be very happy that he chose not to coach on this show (scheduling conflicts). It would have damaged his reputation more than his loss to Hughes ever could.
I think that people dog on Ken because of the ridiculous things he says. Royce doenst put himself in the spotlight as much and make "living death" like comments. Personally, I'm tired of hearing Ken talk about how great Ken is and how tough Ken is, just to watch him get knocked out. Other than Kimo, whats the last fight he won? Off the top of my head, I remember KO'd by Sak, KO'd by Franklin, destroyed by Tito, lost to Frye and gave up against Fujita (and then has the audacity to talk shit about Kaleb quiting). Seriously, why is he still fighting?
"Why do almost all the people on this board hate Ken Shamrock, but love Royce Gracie?"
I've actually met both of them. Royce was friendly, polite and downright funny. Ken was arrogant and boorish.
I can't speak for all the people on this board of course, but that's why I prefer Royce to Ken. Plus, of course, he's a much better fighter than Ken, and contributed much more to the establishment of the sport. In a 100 years time, when MMA fans look up the history of the sport, they will find Ken's name as a footnote in the entry marked "Royce Gracie".
I've met both as well.
Royce was a nice guy. Ken was a nice guy as well. Ken was more interested in listening to what I had to say, but Royce was friendly as hell.
Not sure what the point of that is.
I wouldn't say that I hate "Ken," but what is to like? Let's face it. A lot of his popularity has to do with the fact that he was the first American to have some success in MMA and he fought in the first UFC. But who has he beaten? Kimo (x2) and Dan Severn. He made ridiculous comments and excuses about his second fight with Royce. He is also a horrible coach. Can anyone who watches TUF sincereky say that (a) he likes Ken as a person (I find him insufferable) and (b) he is a good coach? I'll give credit where credit is due. Over time, Ken has done a lot for the sport. But I really cannot understand you Shamrock fanatics who adore him. Why??????????
Early on, Ken was a pioneer in the sport. If it wasn't for him, no mma'ers would use tanning booths, wax their chests and legs, and wear purple capes.
Ken also introduced the concept of "warrior spirit theft"
People dislike shamrock because he got more recognition than his skills deserved. Only reason he had an mma carrer was because of his looks/body. He never won a UFC, He won like 2 boring superfights, and he just has always come across as a cocky asshole who thinks the world owes him something.
i would put money on the fact that Royce wouldn't have his students sitting around watching tapes of his old fight instead of training
And Don Frye didn't get the big bucks until he waxed,tanned, and roided following in Ken's footsteps.