why 'Master' Lloyd Irvin

Master is an appropriate title for just about any one that has a black belt as that belt should represent a mastery of the art. I personally can't stand "sifu" just sounds cheesy..

BarrosJiuJitsu - Master is an appropriate title for just about any one that has a black belt as that belt should represent a mastery of the art. I personally can't stand "sifu" just sounds cheesy..


I just dont think master is an appropriate term. Given its history it is a loaded term. Master - slave, or master - peasant in feudal times or even the old school asian master. Master seems to have a subservient aspect that i dont care for and dont think really reflects the bjj teacher student relationship. I wonder why we in the west have focused on an old asian martial arts tradition of master disciple? Or maybe more from the military tradition?

My opinion is that something like professor is more reflective of the bjj teacher-student relationship than master. A university professor has a deep technical expertise in a field you may want to study such as math or economics. They are an expert in their field so you can learn a great deal from them and certainly respect that knowledge. This Professor isnt an expert in every area of life and you wouldnt expect them to offer advice outside their area of expertise. Heck you probably have skills in areas that your professor doesnt. This relationship seems pretty similar to the bjj teacher student relationship or at least in my opinion.

It also seems that some martial arts teachers get off on the master title as a power kick. Imhave certainly seen this in TMA. I have liked the more relaxed brazilian approach to teaching bjj and hope we leave the master stuff out, or at least the negative aspects.

Finally, given that the gods of bjj such as Carlson, Helio, Carlos...didnt want to be called master, it seems a bit much for teachers with less accomplishments in bjj to insist on the master title.

Ok there is my rant/opinion.

Finally, given that the gods of bjj such as Carlson, Helio, Carlos...didnt want to be called master


They were all Grandmasters.

Lloyd isn't a master in pure bjj terms but i don't think that's the origin of why he uses the term anyway.

Grand Master -- Red Belt -- 9th & 10th degree
Master -- Red and Black Belt -- 7th & 8th degree
Professor -- Black Belt -- 2nd through 6th degree
Instructor -- Black Belt (without degrees)
Assistant Instructor -- Black Belt (with plain red band)
Fighter -- Black Belt (with white band)

Just because they had a title didnt mean they were called it or wanted to be called it. If i had started calling Carlson grandmaster he would have probably said, Porra! Just call me Carlson. No one called him that.

Anarkis - 
EazyG - seems a bit pretentious for BJJ but one cannot question his school or commercial success.

seems pretty TMA, too.



I think professor is far more pretentious then master.


Do you realize what it means in the original Portugese it comes from?

JSho -
Finally, given that the gods of bjj such as Carlson, Helio, Carlos...didnt want to be called master


They were all Grandmasters.

Lloyd isn't a master in pure bjj terms but i don't think that's the origin of why he uses the term anyway.

Grand Master -- Red Belt -- 9th & 10th degree
Master -- Red and Black Belt -- 7th & 8th degree
Professor -- Black Belt -- 2nd through 6th degree
Instructor -- Black Belt (without degrees)
Assistant Instructor -- Black Belt (with plain red band)
Fighter -- Black Belt (with white band)

This. My instructor is "professor" and then Caique is "master". Phone Post

Northside Strangler - 
JSho -
Finally, given that the gods of bjj such as Carlson, Helio, Carlos...didnt want to be called master


They were all Grandmasters.

Lloyd isn't a master in pure bjj terms but i don't think that's the origin of why he uses the term anyway.

Grand Master -- Red Belt -- 9th & 10th degree
Master -- Red and Black Belt -- 7th & 8th degree
Professor -- Black Belt -- 2nd through 6th degree
Instructor -- Black Belt (without degrees)
Assistant Instructor -- Black Belt (with plain red band)
Fighter -- Black Belt (with white band)
This. My instructor is "professor" and then Caique is "master". <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I've never seen "Fighter" with a white band type belt before. I've also seen a few black belts wear black belts with no band at all. WHat is the difference between in the above between asst instructor and instructor. I'm assuming both have bands, but what would differentiate the asst?

Anarkis - 
EazyG - seems a bit pretentious for BJJ but one cannot question his school or commercial success.

seems pretty TMA, too.



I think professor is far more pretentious then master.


Well, I have this discussion many times in other forums. Professor is just Portuguese for teacher, is not a academic title. Period. Japanese martial arts use japanese words. Some people treat teachers, coach with excessive reverence. Never met one teacher that was not a douche that would not be fine with he being called by Mr.[insert last name], while most even use a nickname or first name.

TristanESP - I've never seen "Fighter" with a white band type belt before. I've also seen a few black belts wear black belts with no band at all. WHat is the difference between in the above between asst instructor and instructor. I'm assuming both have bands, but what would differentiate the asst?


Some schools on the Helio side of the family (mainly Royce and Caique) use a black belt with a white band. A black belt without any band doesn't mean anything more significant then the wearer probably went and bought a nice Mizuno belt.

James

BJJ1553 - Yeah, how dare I post my opinion on a message board!

What the hell was I thinking????

Josh, send me your email address so I can run any post I want to make on the UG, by you so it can get your approval first.

Thanks. I promise to comply better next time with Josh, the UG Ombudsman :)

Just making sure I stay in your 99% of BJJ people you can't stand. Phone Post

Anarkis -
BJJ1553 - 
joshjitsu - 
BJJ1553 - Yeah, how dare I post my opinion on a message board!

What the hell was I thinking????

Josh, send me your email address so I can run any post I want to make on the UG, by you so it can get your approval first.

Thanks. I promise to comply better next time with Josh, the UG Ombudsman :)
Just making sure I stay in your 99% of BJJ people you can't stand.



Actually you're in a totally different category that falls outside of the realm of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu :)



When are you two going to have a challenge match?

BJJ1553 would have me DQ'ed for conspiracy to commit leg reaping. Phone Post

Anarkis - Sensei (???) is a Japanese word that basically means "person born before another."[1] In general usage, it means "master" or "teacher,"[2] and the word is used as a title to refer to or address teachers, professors, professionals such as lawyers, CPA and doctors, politicians, clergymen, and other figures of authority.[3]

End of Thread

Anakis LOL Phone Post

SleepBomb -  actually, after class lloyd has all his students pick cotton for him



lmao

wtf??

LMAO, too

One suggested change:


after class MASTER Lloyd has all his students pick cotton for him.

"BJJ1553 would have me DQ'ed for conspiracy to commit leg reaping. "

Lol. This is pretty fucking funny. Phone Post

I'd heard it started as a rib on another instructor there because it took him so long to get his blackbelt, so they called him "Master," as a joke. As newer people came to the school they thought that you were supposed to call the instructors "master."

BJJ1553 - I would If I could actually hear you through your constant whining about reaping.



Man up Mancuso, even Snooki cries better than you do. Lol





WAHHHHHHHHH


 frank mancuso? the producer of Friday the 13th

no GrandWizard?

Do we have enough posts for the real answer yet?



Lloyd Irvin doesn't claim "Master" rank in BJJ.  It's his title from the Thai Jitsu art that he also teaches.  He's pretty clear about this if you ask him.  

twinkletoesCT - Do we have enough posts for the real answer yet?

Lloyd Irvin doesn't claim "Master" rank in BJJ.  It's his title from the Thai Jitsu art that he also teaches.  He's pretty clear about this if you ask him.  <br type="_moz" />


Thank you.

I guess I just prefer the Brazilian informal style.

Reminds me of a funny story. Carlson Jr. used to teach seminars to Hapkido groups so they could work on some ground game. Apparently he was at a big one where there was a high level Hapkido teacher there that represents some of the negative sides of TMA. The guy was a 50+ year old American with a big belly and had a pompous attitude.

So the TMA is teaching the first part of the seminar and a student asks him "what should we call you?". The TMA guy stops everyone at the seminar and says "I was just asked an important question - how should you students refer to me?" He replied "I should be referred to as GrandMaster."

Then he looks over to Carlson Jr. who is sitting in the corner chatting with a few people as says "Mr. Gracie, how should the students refer to you?" Junior looks up, shrugs his shoulders and says "Junior, or Carlson." Classic.