As I have said, beating Ronda boils down to two things, patience and Rondas inability to take a shot. There's more reasons than that why Ronda won't ever beat Holly though.
First, boxing ability. Ronda doesn't have much. Sure, she looks good on pads. Anyone can. But when it comes to live action, she wilts, hands up, but spread far from her face, bouncing along like someone trying to emulate a boxer - whilst having no experience themselves.
She can't even throw punches with her hips come fight time. Her feet leave her, and she wings punches with her arms. She lacks head movement, or any sense of depth perception and range. That's why she bullrushes people to get into the clinch. It's an attempt to intimidate them.
"But she's knocked out three girls!" Sure, Bethe Correia, who turned into a spectacular knock-out artist the night she was announced as the next title contender. Bethe, who had a couple of years boxercise under her belt and thought, "I could give this MMA thing a go" and two years later she's fighing for a world title. Alexis Davis, the BJJ black belt who has very limited striking and went into the fight so relaxed it looked like she was ready to fall asleep. And last but not least, Sara McMann, the Olympic gold medallist. She got a knee in the liver, and no chance to recover. Until the fight got into the clinch againt the cage she was landing right hands and would have continued to do so.
Second, Rondas lack of wrestling. Ronda can grapple. No doubt about it. But she has one throw, and one way to get into position for it. Bumrush into the clinch hands down chest out and chin up. She can't shoot for a single or double, and once her throw has been stopped she's helpless. She needs to improve this exponentially and could only do so by moving to a camp where grappling is a main focus, like Alliance, or Alpha Male. Once she gets there though, not much will improve for her and that's explained next. I personally am not that great at wrestling and only have a white belt in BJJ, so I struggle to break this section down more.
Last, Edmond - and Rondas ability to be taught. Edmond is a yes man. Plain and simple. Almost everyone around Ronda is a yes man. Brendan Schaub said on his podcast - I am paraphrasing here - As soon as you say no, you're public enemy number one, and you never believed in her at all.
By the seems of it, everything at GFC is tailored for Ronda. Just look at "The 4 Horsewomen." Came from all over the US to train with Ronda at GFC, three of them still train together, just not with Ronda. Travis Browne, he went backwards. Jake Ellenberger is the only person I can even think of who improved his striking in a fight after training at GFC. Sounds crazy, right? He's lost 3 of his last 4, and the win he had was a submission, probably practiced at Kings. Why would I say his striking improved? It looked crisper. That's it. Jake became far more tentative since training at GFC and the Juggernaut isn't really a fitting nickname any more.
Between rounds, Edmond told Ronda "You're doing great, she TRYING to hit you with the left, just like we knew she would. You're doing everything perfect." You can't have a coach do that to you. In-between rounds is one of the most crucial parts of fighting. If your corner can't help you, and you're not winning, that's it. It's over. Countless fighters have lost fights due to poor corners. Some of the best examples have come recently, Meisha to Bryan "Just Coast, you've got this." BJ Penns corner "Fuck him up, punch him in the face." Anthony Johnsons corner vs Cormier "Man up."
Possibly most heartbreaking of all to watch was when Anthony Pettis fought RDA. Between the second and third rounds Anthony had mentally checked out of the fight, and the advice Duke gave Anthony was "Just be Anthony. Be Showtime." Anthony looked right at Duke and said "How?"
The fact that Edmond claims a "41-4 stand up record" is incredible. Especially since he has no idea how to actually pass on any knowledge to his fighters. So why does Ronda stay? Because shes being told "Yes, what you're doing is great. There's nothing wrong." This is why she wouldn't succeed at another, more high profile camp. She wouldn't be surrounded by yes men and she would be told "NO, do it again." That's not something her ego can take.
These are things that can be fixed, and I'm not saying Ronda won't be champion again, but I have doubts that they will be fixed. Other people can beat Holly, but that is for another day.
She took some good shots in this fight, did you watch it?
She certainly isn't doing herself any favors bumrushing Holly. I doubt she loses a rematch if she forces Holly to be the offensive fighter. She might lose a round or 2 on points by getting jabbed but she will get some clinches while taking very little damage. Holly escaped a sub attempt, maybe she escapes 1 out of 10 from Ronda and that was the 1. We just don't know.
Common sense though says if Ronda gets her to the ground a few times, Holly's chances don't look good
ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - She took some good shots in this fight, did you watch it?
She certainly isn't doing herself any favors bumrushing Holly. I doubt she loses a rematch if she forces Holly to be the offensive fighter. She might lose a round or 2 on points by getting jabbed but she will get some clinches while taking very little damage. Holly escaped a sub attempt, maybe she escapes 1 out of 10 from Ronda and that was the 1. We just don't know.
Common sense though says if Ronda gets her to the ground a few times, Holly's chances don't look good
She? Are you referring to Holly in that first sentence. If so, I'm not sure what fight you were watching. Ronda had no decent moment in the fight, let alone land any shot that could have put Holly in any trouble, nor even set up any trouble.
I don't think you understand the rest of what you said. Holly is predominantly a counterstriker. Just because that is her gameplan doesn't mean she can't fight offensively. If Ronda lets Holly walk her down the fight will end even faster.
As for escaping the submission, hoo-boy. I don't know what to tell you. Ronda was in no position to even attempt a submission. She didn't have an arm, Holly tucked that away, and Ronda was well off balance. All her weight was on her neck. Why on earth would you assume that Hollys grappling defence is that bad? She trains at Jackson's and Winklejohns. She is going to be practicing grappling on a very regular basis. Just because no-one has been able to make her use it doesn't mean it isn't there.
everyone of her other opponents were better at grappling than Holm, and Ronda powered through them, her armbar is pretty good if Ronda gets a good grip she has a great chance at finishing, now can she get a hold of holly before getting lit up? well that's always been the question with Rousey.
she definitely needs a more well versed mma coach, she just needs to get learn some other ways of latching on to Holly, probably just be a little more patient and picking her spots better would serve her well against Holm.
No-one has any argument against this?
Good. Now we can leave the Rousey hyperbole back in the dark where it belongs.
Should I continue with Rondas attitude being another reason?
If it was such a sure thing, you wouldn't have written a small book trying to justify your opinion.
Everyone and their retarded uncle have jumped on the Holly Wagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
turdboy - If it was such a sure thing, you wouldn't have written a small book trying to justify your opinion.http://forum.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2461141
Everyone and their retarded uncle have jumped on the Holly Wagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
The Pendulum - No-one has any argument against this?
Good. Now we can leave the Rousey hyperbole back in the dark where it belongs.
No argument against, I wanted to pick up with the wrestling, where you began and left off.
Ronda Rousey absolutely needs wrestling in order to be able to beat Holly Holm. She needs a double leg, switch off to a single, and dump it. She needs a single leg, switch off to a double, and finish by taking the opponent into the air, (Barzegar) and transition to side control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoph2cR8BtY
In wrestling you need all those set ups,(link above) but in MMA you don't. A simple feint,level change, inside single, switch to the double and finish as shown in the video would put Holly in tremendous danger.
Where is she going to learn that stuff,and not just learn the technical aspects (you can all learn watching the video) but where is she going to understand when and why/how to use it? It's not just hitting moves, you need to understand the move in order to really commit to it and believe in it. If you don't know and understand situations, you will telegraph the move and the opponent will see t coming a mile away. This is a key. GSP got very good at understanding where he was relative to the opponent and in the setting within the fight. It made his take downs great. SO where does she go to learn this?
AKA. And while she's there she can try her luck at beating Cain.
If they'd allow her in there and she learns how to act (wrestling heavy rooms demand respect or they kick your ass and throw you out). As noted above, she's accustomed to yes type environments. I truly believe, as limited as Rousey is with her MMA game, if she focused on her take downs, 2 each, and to either side, she can actually win. Now is she willing to humble herself, leave her comfort zone, and seek out proper instruction? And can she physically handle the wrestling grind? She's gong to have to become a wrestler in order to understand when to hit the move.
I hear she has bad knees and a shit attitude. Because of that, she cannot execute this plan.
The Pendulum -turdboy - If it was such a sure thing, you wouldn't have written a small book trying to justify your opinion.http://forum.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2461141
Everyone and their retarded uncle have jumped on the Holly Wagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Are you looking for a prize? You were not the only one who picked her. Someone else picked Holly to win by head kick KO.
It made sense to go on at length when she was a huge underdog. Now that Holly has won, she is everyone's favorite.. yet you are still blathering on like you're saying something provocative. We got it. You picked Holly to win in an upset. Awesome bro.
turdboy -No. You just said I jumped on the Holly wagon. I wrote the prediction nearly 6 months before the fight took place. I wrote this thread just after the fight because people were saying Ronda would win the rematch.The Pendulum -turdboy - If it was such a sure thing, you wouldn't have written a small book trying to justify your opinion.http://forum.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2461141
Everyone and their retarded uncle have jumped on the Holly Wagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Are you looking for a prize? You were not the only one who picked her. Someone else picked Holly to win by head kick KO.
It made sense to go on at length when she was a huge underdog. Now that Holly has won, she is everyone's favorite.. yet you are still blathering on like you're saying something provocative. We got it. You picked Holly to win in an upset. Awesome bro.
What's happened since then? Ronda is still at the same camp, has made no outside effort to improve her wrestling, and is blatantly stuck in a sea of yes men.
SinCityHustler -You articulated that better than I could. Thank you.The Pendulum - No-one has any argument against this?
Good. Now we can leave the Rousey hyperbole back in the dark where it belongs.
No argument against, I wanted to pick up with the wrestling, where you began and left off.
Ronda Rousey absolutely needs wrestling in order to be able to beat Holly Holm. She needs a double leg, switch off to a single, and dump it. She needs a single leg, switch off to a double, and finish by taking the opponent into the air, (Barzegar) and transition to side control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoph2cR8BtY
In wrestling you need all those set ups,(link above) but in MMA you don't. A simple feint,level change, inside single, switch to the double and finish as shown in the video would put Holly in tremendous danger.
Where is she going to learn that stuff,and not just learn the technical aspects (you can all learn watching the video) but where is she going to understand when and why/how to use it? It's not just hitting moves, you need to understand the move in order to really commit to it and believe in it. If you don't know and understand situations, you will telegraph the move and the opponent will see t coming a mile away. This is a key. GSP got very good at understanding where he was relative to the opponent and in the setting within the fight. It made his take downs great. SO where does she go to learn this?
AKA. And while she's there she can try her luck at beating Cain.
If they'd allow her in there and she learns how to act (wrestling heavy rooms demand respect or they kick your ass and throw you out). As noted above, she's accustomed to yes type environments. I truly believe, as limited as Rousey is with her MMA game, if she focused on her take downs, 2 each, and to either side, she can actually win. Now is she willing to humble herself, leave her comfort zone, and seek out proper instruction? And can she physically handle the wrestling grind? She's gong to have to become a wrestler in order to understand when to hit the move.
I hear she has bad knees and a shit attitude. Because of that, she cannot execute this plan.
Rewatching the first round of that fight, Ronda isn't getting dominated or embarrassed until she really starts chasing HH in the last minute or so. She was getting beat the entire first round based on HH superior technique, but Ronda did have success as the aggressor. Her main problem was that when she stopped having any success at all going forward, and Holly was stopping her advance with hard shots, she didn't pull back and feel her out and have a number of ways to draw Holly into clinch fighting. Survive on the feet and take-down minded Ronda might never exist, but she's entirely capable of winning that fight.
Ronda's not going to develop some slick single or double-leg in the next year and she'll get hit hard trying for it. Her clinch fighting is everything she needs to get holly to the ground. She'll probably need to get Holly to the ground three or four times from the clinch to be able to finish her.
ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - She took some good shots in this fight, did you watch it?
She certainly isn't doing herself any favors bumrushing Holly. I doubt she loses a rematch if she forces Holly to be the offensive fighter. She might lose a round or 2 on points by getting jabbed but she will get some clinches while taking very little damage. Holly escaped a sub attempt, maybe she escapes 1 out of 10 from Ronda and that was the 1. We just don't know.
Common sense though says if Ronda gets her to the ground a few times, Holly's chances don't look good
Hmmm, don't think so, mate.
If Ronda tries to counter and force Holly to be the offensive one, things will be worse. Holly is a better striker, with better judgement of range, timing send better reach. What you think. She's gonna run into Ronda to fight in the pocket? Please. Holly will just find her range and pop shots, and without Ronda going forward, she wouldn't even be able to clinch. She'd get whooped.
How exactly do you envision Ronda getting into a clinch whilst being the defensive one?
The Pendulum -turdboy -No. You just said I jumped on the Holly wagon. I wrote the prediction nearly 6 months before the fight took place. I wrote this thread just after the fight because people were saying Ronda would win the rematch.The Pendulum -turdboy - If it was such a sure thing, you wouldn't have written a small book trying to justify your opinion.http://forum.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2461141
Everyone and their retarded uncle have jumped on the Holly Wagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Are you looking for a prize? You were not the only one who picked her. Someone else picked Holly to win by head kick KO.
It made sense to go on at length when she was a huge underdog. Now that Holly has won, she is everyone's favorite.. yet you are still blathering on like you're saying something provocative. We got it. You picked Holly to win in an upset. Awesome bro.
What's happened since then? Ronda is still at the same camp, has made no outside effort to improve her wrestling, and is blatantly stuck in a sea of yes men.
No. I did not say that you just jumped on the Holly wagon. I remember your original thread and Mason Jar made reference to the same thread after your first post. And I remember this thread from November.
Since Holly won, everyone has jumped on the Holly wagon. Again, it made sense to go on at length when Holly was counted out but she is the favorite now. There is nothing more to "set straight". The fight has been broken down ad nauseum, yet you are still bumping a thread from last year.
Diversify bro.. no need to cling to a single correct prediction. It really wasn't that big of a deal. I have picked every McGregor fight with a better over/under average than Conor himself - but you don't see me bumping yesterday's news to say "I told you so".
And just because you got the outcome correct, doesn't mean your analysis is worth a shit. You got some things right.. and other things... we'll all see soon enough.
Nick Diaz still GOAT - everyone of her other opponents were better at grappling than Holm, and Ronda powered through them, her armbar is pretty good if Ronda gets a good grip she has a great chance at finishing, now can she get a hold of holly before getting lit up? well that's always been the question with Rousey.
she definitely needs a more well versed mma coach, she just needs to get learn some other ways of latching on to Holly, probably just be a little more patient and picking her spots better would serve her well against Holm.
They may be better, but Holly had a better gamelan; to nullify Ronda's grappling, not to our grapple her.
But the whole "Holly's grappling isn't great" may just be a myth. She's been grappling for over 5 years now at an awesome gym. She hasn't shown her wrestling ability as she simply hasn't had the need to. And it's not like all these girls are way ahead of her grappling wise. You gonna tell me Bethe is such a supreme grappling athlete? Even silver medallist McMann got outgrappled by a "high school" wrestler in Tate (who is probably the divisions best wrestler).
I think Holly will show the world when fighting Tate that she has a lot more tools in her box than she let's on (like being the first and only person to successfully take down Ronda).
Amagov_Couldve_Been_King -ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - She took some good shots in this fight, did you watch it?
She certainly isn't doing herself any favors bumrushing Holly. I doubt she loses a rematch if she forces Holly to be the offensive fighter. She might lose a round or 2 on points by getting jabbed but she will get some clinches while taking very little damage. Holly escaped a sub attempt, maybe she escapes 1 out of 10 from Ronda and that was the 1. We just don't know.
Common sense though says if Ronda gets her to the ground a few times, Holly's chances don't look good
Hmmm, don't think so, mate.
If Ronda tries to counter and force Holly to be the offensive one, things will be worse. Holly is a better striker, with better judgement of range, timing send better reach. What you think. She's gonna run into Ronda to fight in the pocket? Please. Holly will just find her range and pop shots, and without Ronda going forward, she wouldn't even be able to clinch. She'd get whooped.
How exactly do you envision Ronda getting into a clinch whilst being the defensive one?
Clinch is the defensive posture against aggression. Judo fighter of her caliber is entirely capable of countering a superior boxer with clinch fighting.
Stopped reading at "Sure, she looks good on pads."
By good, do you mean 'like a kitten pawing at a salmon?' 
I have been watching nhb/mma for 25 years. It's the same old shit year after year.
A big fight comes along.. most analysts get it wrong but a few get it right. Come next fight, those who got it right think they are special and everyone else changes their tune until the next upset happens.
The only thing that doesn't seem to change are the people who think there are "sure things" in MMA. The only sure thing in MMA is that nothing is a sure thing.
NYjojo -Amagov_Couldve_Been_King -ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - She took some good shots in this fight, did you watch it?
She certainly isn't doing herself any favors bumrushing Holly. I doubt she loses a rematch if she forces Holly to be the offensive fighter. She might lose a round or 2 on points by getting jabbed but she will get some clinches while taking very little damage. Holly escaped a sub attempt, maybe she escapes 1 out of 10 from Ronda and that was the 1. We just don't know.
Common sense though says if Ronda gets her to the ground a few times, Holly's chances don't look good
Hmmm, don't think so, mate.
If Ronda tries to counter and force Holly to be the offensive one, things will be worse. Holly is a better striker, with better judgement of range, timing send better reach. What you think. She's gonna run into Ronda to fight in the pocket? Please. Holly will just find her range and pop shots, and without Ronda going forward, she wouldn't even be able to clinch. She'd get whooped.
How exactly do you envision Ronda getting into a clinch whilst being the defensive one?
Clinch is the defensive posture against aggression. Judo fighter of her caliber is entirely capable of countering a superior boxer with clinch fighting.
Yeah, against aggression.
But as I said, even initiating attacks, don't expect Holly to run into the pocket. She will still ditsy on the outside, use her superior range and pick off Ronda if Ronda is gonna expect Holly to get in the pocket, it won't happen.
Basically, Ronda simply HAS to be aggressive.