and he states that fighters should get more money, or rather most of the money becasue they are the ones putting it on the line, risking their health and their lives. well it got me thinking. seriously, why should the fighters get most of the money?
this is eerily similar to how other professional sports (baseball, hockey, basketball) had strikes in regards to pay disputes. it is a case of the owners vs the players, the players in this case are the fighters.
dont get me wrong, im all for people being paid fairly. and those that work harder and perform better should get paid more, much like life.
here is an analogy, i own a business, in fact our family owns a few businesses, we worked pretty hard to build them up, we sacrificed and risked a lot to finance those businesses. we hire a lot of staff to help us run those businesses. they get paid at a rate commensurate with the industry standard and some get paid more. now if tito's rationale holds true, then it would be the staff that would get most of the profits and not the owner of the business. the same staff that only works 50 hours a week as opposed to teh owner of the business that puts in more time as well as takes work home with them. in this case, tito is dead wrong.
the same applies with the ufc. why should the fighters get most of the money, they didnt lose $40 million trying to build up the business. they dont have to promote the shows each month. they dont have to look for sponsors and they dont have to ensure that the company operates smoothly week to week trying to secure network deals which ensures the longevity of the brand.
again, im all for fighters being paid more than the minimum $3k/$3k, which is a joke. but if u look at it, if that fighter gets 1 fight a month, then thats a $36k a year job, not much, but better than a lot of people, plus they can always work part time somewhere else.
Most fighters train fulltime to prepare for fights yet get paid in the neighborhood of a McDonalds worker. They have to have secondary sources of revenue to make ends meet. They sacrifice their best earning years and best dues paying years in the pursuit of a dream. Meanwhile the the larger organizations, and god bless their sacrifices, make millions, maybe tens of millions each show. I too am of the firm belief that the owners sacriced and risked and are due the lions share of the profits. That being said a few more million per show in the fighters pockets would completely change the landscape and would not significanly effect the dinner order of the owners of means of production.
"I too am of the firm belief that the owners sacriced and risked and are due the lions share of the profits."
Why are you of that firm belief? This isn't the case in boxing, the most analogous sport. The fighters don't take fractions of the whole, they see much more of the pie, well over half in many instances. Bob Arum doesn't make more than the star fighters--he makes less.
in australia, we have the elite athletes that make a living playing their chosen sport professionally, such as the cricketers and rugby league players.
but u also have state level players, those that are either trying to make it to the national level, or those that are just happy to be playing a sport they love at a high level. they still get paid, but at a much lower level. some state cricket players might get a few hundred dollars a match. and some rugby league players that play in the state competition might get a few hundred as well, but they still need to train 3x a week as well as work at their regular job.
its a given that those that are at teh door waiting to get in will always be shafted in terms of pay.
the analogy of the mcdonalds worker doesnt fly. they have less of an option of working another job as their job at mcdonalds is probably their main income source in relation to time (im sure they could work another job as many do), whereas an mma fighter can train and still hold down a job, thus their income potential will be more
Well why doesn't the owner pay himself by the hour? Actually most do, or pay themselves a large salary, and then also take the lions share of the profits. In this case a fight works very hard, for six to twelve weeks for his training camp. And at the event he is the reason people are coming. He is the one that risks injury that could end his career, not only in the ring but in training. So why shouldn't that person get a share of the profits? And why do the promoters consider the endorsements part of the fighters wages? Well you will only make ten grand, but you will get some great endorsement deals, and thing of the advertising for your gym?
Ofcourse when the UFC was losing money every event, the fighters weren't losing money.
It isn't an easy question however, when you have fighters like Tyson who is a complete pos making millions of dollars per fight, and a doctor who workes in a clinic in a poor neighborhood making $70,000.00 a year. The whole thing is pretty messed up
Tito signed a contract that said he'd make X amount of dollars, and he wants more. Same as Randy. They aren't happy with the contracts they signed, and for some reason think that they shouldn't have to 'work' unless they get what they want, right?
Where's the motivation for a business owner to throw money at you, when you won't do what you've agreed to?
Hey Walt, it is my understanding that all of the state cricket players are on paying annual contracts, thats why its a big deal that Bryce McGain works a job, most do not.
i remember an interview with the la lakers great jerry west, he was discussing how it used to be when he played, way before the multi million dollar contracts (in fact, i think it was lew alcindor aka kareem abdul jabbar, that was teh first to usher in the huge contracts). jerry west mentioned how they used to travel on a rickety old bus, often with 4 games on 4 consecutive nights. he said how his feet and back hurt so much he couldnt feel them, all while sleeping on the bus with no hotel room. plus they were getting paid a pittance.
hey rev, i was trying to use an example that i remembered when i was talking to a few guys that played state level and regional level cricket. they said they were getting a few hundred for match fees as well as a bonus for winning.
also, i had a friend that played in the regional 1st grade soccer competition (this was before the a-league), he would travel around the state once a week to play agaisnt other regional teams. i think it was $150 for teh game and double if they won, plus man of the match bonus. although he had no chance of making it to the national competition, he still had dreams, and he thought the money was still a good incentive to keep plugging away, seeing as he didnt have to pay for registration or match fees
people are dreamers if they think they can make a living out of a non mainstream sport.
you ask the majority of people and they wouldn't have a fucking clue what the UFC is, let alone MMA.
that's the facts.
it's a fringe sport that will struggle to generate revenues to properly pay ALL fighters what they deserve. remember only the top boxers get paid mad bank, the others are just journeymen eeking out an existence.
they have the pay scales right on for the upper echelon guys, however I think the guys they use to fill the cards, to keep the cards exciting deserve a bump. Coture is just fine Chuck is just fine, so on and so forth. But the guy making 10k- 20k with very little sponsor money needs a bump imo.
They traveled on the bus before hundred million dollar tv deals, video game revenues, etc.
Tito and Randy did sign and then market conditions changed. The UFC has a right to release them at anytime for performance and not owe them a dollar, so if the contract is not guaranteed shouldnt they be able to seek a reasonabable renegotiation... opperative word reasonable.
The other majors have a union to protect them and assure a reasonable distribution is revenue. It is unlikely that a union will form in MMA and it can be pretty much assured if the majors take care of their talent.
Priveldge or right... symantics. The public demands the entertainment and supports it with their recreational dollar. Making a living is not a privledge.
Dont get me wrong I am a capitalist. I have always been on the sides of the owners of businesses and have always been an owner myself. I just see the efforts of these athletes and recognize their need for competant representation... such as myself. That is my shameless plug.
Oh and Dojo if the UFC folds up its tent, some other well capitalized company with competant upper level managegement will take its place.
Wow, some of you guys are either blind or ignorant.
It's been stated before in numerous ways and areas that the UFC just in the past year got out of hole and is finally paying themselves for all the down years when they consistently lost money. And as you'll notice as time has gone by every fighter (assuming they're winning and not regularly losing) has been getting paid more and more. This completely ignores the fact that the UFC is almost single handedly helping to grow this sport in the mainstream and trying to grow appeal from a worldwide audience, getting regulation/standards, etc. I don't see other fight orgs doing this. There's a reason many call it Ultimate Fighting and not MMA.
It's rare if not non existent to see anyone getting below $5k at this point. The better fighters are making more every show. The fight bonuses have gone up considerably. That's not even considering the intangibles that being on a show like the UFC does for other areas like popularity, sponsorships, etc.
Guys like Kenny P easily make their fighters more money when they pull in the name recognition of being a "UFC veteran". As with any industry the best performers will get paid the most (considering both wins and popularity). You're kidding yourself if you think things aren't getting better every day for fighters.
In the end the UFC is doing a great job of treating their fighters better and better as they are able to do so. I've seen nothing out of them but good moves for the sport, the fighters, and of course themselves. To completely belittle & ignore this is foolhardy.
"*36k a year here in america is only a few rungs above the poverty line. it's basically a paycheck to paycheck way of life. it's a shitty way of life, especially for fighters who run the risk of having to the go the hospital several times during the year."
That is simply not true. Where you live would determine how far 36k goes, and if you are not in a major city and are not trying to support kids with it then its plenty of money. A single man in his 20's making that is doing just fine. If you are trying to support a family as a fighter, you have to make personal choices about that one.
The problem is its tough to make 3k a fight and fight 12 times a year. But its not as if anyone has to fight for a living either.
I pay to watch the fighters. Dont give two flying fucks about the org or the fat fucks behind it to me the less obtrusive and behind the scenes they are the better. Same as football or rugby or whatever its the people who actually do that count not the fuckin managers and facilitators. If whathisface fights whoeverthefuck it should be whatshisface and whoeverthefuck that gets most of the money. The bosses profit should come from the 15 percent he skims off.
Though i do agree the fighters need to be paid more i will tell you working an event from the business owner's perspective will give you an eye opening lesson on what the event goes through to put on a show.
First of all there is a ton of risk involved, and a ton of out of pocket expenses that go to marketing, advertising, promoting etc. Then you have to get the fighters to come and set matchups. Then you have to work with the venue. Pay the insurance, work with the sanctioning body, organize the ring girls etc etc. It gets out of control very quickly, and if people don't come your ass is in a sling.
Bottom line is, you can find A LOT of guys willing to step in the cage for 36 K. You only see a handful of business men willing to throw millions of dollars at a large scale, global MMA event. Some people would fight for free and people would watch it. Some people are gifted as fighters, others at putting on awesome shows. It just works out that way. If baseball players thought they could do it on their own, you'd see really great baseball being played at a dirt field. The stadiums were built by engineers, not baseball players.
Whether the UFC makes money on an event or not the fighters still get paid (unlike some events).
Though i do agree, fighters need to get paid more. But don't discredit what the organizations do or the risk they take. I've seen a failed business man have to sell his house, just to cut his debt in half.