Why is there so much range in the heavyweight division? This doesn't make sense to me AT ALL. The only reason Brock Lesnar is relevant in the title picture is because he is so massive. Granted he has a great wrestling pedigree (that he hasn't used in 8 years), but the only reason he is a force to be reckoned with is because he is the first very athletic competitor to weigh in at 260. No one has ever exhibited the level of athleticism that Brock has at 280.
Does anyone remotely think that he would have any chance against Randy if they weighed the same amount??
If not - then isn't this title shot just a freak show of making the champ fight someone 50 pounds heavier?
Divisions: (not exact - I didn't look them up)
LW: 145-155 = 10 pounds
WW: 155-169 = 14 pounds
MW: 170-185 = 15 pounds
LHW:186-205 = 20 pounds
HW: 205-260 = 55 pounds!!!! WTF
There definitely should be another division that breaks this one up.
Because at that point size definately does not matter, in fact it better to be smaller...
no there shouldnt....theres already a lack of HW talent worldwide...splitting the division up would only make it worse
Super Heavyweight is even worse.
265 to infinity.
That is completely wrong. Size matters as anyone that fights Brock in the next year will find out the hard way.
The heavyweight class was so big because there were so few good, athletic big guys for the division. It would not surprise me if down the road there was a cut off put in around 230 for a cruiserweight division or something as more and more athletic, skilled 260+ pounders take up fighting.
Fedor is the king of the heavyweights and he is one of the smaller ones..
I agree that the talent pool is small at this point for HW but MMA is exploding and the number of people training to get into the UFC is as well.
I just don't want to see champs who get their belt by sitting on top of smaller people.
I don't want to see Randy lose to a guy with a fraction of his MMA talent.
This is exactly (and I mean exactly word for word) why Randy dropped down to 205 in the first place.
Guys like Ricco and Barnett were just too fuckin' big for him.
xakx - Because at that point size definately does not matter, in fact it better to be smaller...
hmmm...that's not what all the people picking Brock say....who is correct....
Mad Xyientist -xakx - Because at that point size definately does not matter, in fact it better to be smaller...
hmmm...that's not what all the people picking Brock say....who is correct....
I guess we will find out on 11/15/08, but that still will not prove anything really...
I agree. Its really damn near impossible to tell whether 60 lbs for HW is too much range or not.
Personally I don't believe it matters at HW but the reasons I believe that are as anecdotal as those who disagree.
There's a lot more mentally challenged people on this board lately.
Good Post and worth discussing, for the record it is 206 to 265 for HW and that is obviously a huge weight range comparatively to the other weight classes and makes what Number One HW and P4P King Fedor does at 6 Ft. 230 all the more remarkable.
bismanfightclub - If size doesn't matter, then we need to get rid of weight classes all together again, and that would also eliminate the need for fighters to cut weight. I just can't wait for BJ or GSP to fight Anderson Silva or Brock. Too bad it will never happen cause the little guys who are the first to say size doesn't matter are the first ones to squeal about getting rid of weight classes.
nobody said size doesnt matter...it just doesnt matter as much after 205.... there isnt that many 260 pounders that are athletic enough to use their size as an advantage.....lesnar isnt just big...hes athletic.....he would be good at any weight class...
for examples of why size doesnt matter after 205 see crocop vs hunt, fedor vs sylvia or bob sapp vs a bunch of different people.
Kansas Comet - Good Post and worth discussing, for the record it is 206 to 265 for HW and that is obviously a huge weight range comparatively to the other weight classes and makes what Number One HW and P4P King Fedor does at 6 Ft. 230 all the more remarkable.
That's why I don't think the range at HW matters particularly much,. Besides Fedor, more of the dominant HW's in the sport history have been closer to the lower boundary of the weight class than the higher one.
At HW, I'm not sure the strength and power advantage isn't offset and possibly even overcome by the speed and endurance advantage. That's obviously not true at lower weight classes, but at HW the disadvantages of being huge can place serious problems on your ability to perform.
Your right MX in the contents of the present MMA Landscape but as we see in other Sports especially the NFL it is all about great size speed and athleticism and we are getting more huge fast athletic types in MMA as well; Brock is just one of the first that has broken in but we will see more to follow as the sport grows and expands.
bismanfightclub -GSpenn fan -bismanfightclub - If size doesn't matter, then we need to get rid of weight classes all together again, and that would also eliminate the need for fighters to cut weight. I just can't wait for BJ or GSP to fight Anderson Silva or Brock. Too bad it will never happen cause the little guys who are the first to say size doesn't matter are the first ones to squeal about getting rid of weight classes.
nobody said size doesnt matter...it just doesnt matter as much after 205.... there isnt that many 260 pounders that are athletic enough to use their size as an advantage.....lesnar isnt just big...hes athletic.....he would be good at any weight class...
for examples of why size doesnt matter after 205 see crocop vs hunt, fedor vs sylvia or bob sapp vs a bunch of different people.
So you start out by saying NOBODY said size doesn't matter, then conclude by giving examples of why size doesn't matter. I don't have a problem with weight classes but its when people say that stuff like well once you get over 205 pound, then it doesn't matter. If you weighed 210 and had to wrestle brock in an unlimited weight class and he didn't have to worry about making weight he would probably walk in the ring at around 280. I don't think that every 10 - 15 pounds there has to be a new weight class but it should be based on an over % difference I mean a guy who weighs 300 pounds weighs 33% more than a guy at 200 pounds. Can you really with a straight face tell me thats fair, if you can, then you are either just crazy or stupid. Obviously for the munchkin weights 10 pounds is fair, 15 pounds as you get up around middleweights and when you get to light HWT, HWT's and Super HWT's (and maybe would could stick in a cruiser weight to help) the difference in pounds would get larger as the overall %'s would stay roughly the same, thats all I am trying to say.
you tried the strawman approach in your first post by saying that because people disagree with having heavyweight broken up that they also agreed that weightclasses didnt matter and that bj penn should fight fedor....nobody was saying that....
look at the top 10 heavyweight fighters in the world...are they pushing the max weight limits? no they are not...
due to lack of evidence that bigger heavyweights are consistently beating smaller heavyweights (due to their size)....i declare this thread closed.
Right now it is not such a huge factor but as the sport grows and expands and we get more huge, fast athletic types like Brock into the upper levels of MMA then yes most certainly size/weight does matter.
Being 50 Lbs heavier than Randy at fight time is a huge deal and one of the main reasons this fight with Randy/Brock is a compelling fight.
If both are 230 Lbs coming in then of course Randy destroys Brock but Lesnar with a 50 Lbs weight advantage it is probably a Pick'em fight so yes once again size/weight does matter.
xakx - Because at that point size definately does not matter, in fact it better to be smaller...
I would say that's true in boxing, but not in mma. Nobody at 206 lbs. is going to stand a chance against Brock Lesnar when he can easily take them down at will.
Kansas Comet - Your right MX in the contents of the present MMA Landscape but as we see in other Sports especially the NFL it is all about great size speed and athleticism and we are getting more huge fast athletic types in MMA as well; Brock is just one of the first that has broken in but we will see more to follow as the sport grows and expands.NFL is a whole different animal because the big guys need to have brief, 10 second bursts of energy but don't need to have 25 straight minutes of explosiveness.
Brock Lesnar is an interesting case, but I'm not sure we have enough data on this one.
When Brock gets to the third round in a closely matched fight, is he going to gas? Are we going to say "he gasses just like all the big guys?" When we see him fight a striker with great footwork and sprawl, are we going to see that he's not light enough on his feet to hang with someone who can stick and move? I'm not sure yet.
Even if Brock fights his whole career and never has problems with gas or mobility, I'm not sure that's conclusive of much, as he's obviously the exception, not the rule.
But you have a good point because at that top level of competitive sports, everbody is an exception and a freak.