Why US military usually punishes misconduct but..

not Police.

https://theconversation.com/why-the-us-military-usually-punishes-misconduct-but-police-often-close-ranks-127898

Interesting read.

It seems that a lot of times the police just don't trust their own institution, the only people they trust are fellow officers --- not captains, not management, not the department, not the mayor.

Which seems to align with this article --- that Marines view the Marines as a trustworthy institution, while police don't see their own police department in the same light.

Are you suggesting we make police military?

1 Like

CavemanDave -

Are you suggesting we make police military?

It’s the only answer Mr. Dave

Muscle Vision - 
CavemanDave -

Are you suggesting we make police military?

It’s the only answer Mr. Dave


What a bizarre assertion, lmao.

210,000 Marines including reserves. 

99% of Marines answer to other Marines and don't have to wonder if their next paycheck is coming in. They also don't have to worry about their pay just being cut willy nilly or if the day they ride into Camp Pendleton at 530 is the day they eat a bullet. 

When you're a marine, you usually get a heads up of when you're going into harm's way. You also have clear rules of engagement and a chain of command authorizing specific applications of lethal force. Cops are finding out that even following their training can get them charged with capital murder if they're forced to defend themseleves. 

800,000 LEOs in the country. 

Cops answer to local, state, and national bureaucrats and politicians. They also know better than most that the cops who place the highest value on their team and suboordinates well-being don't necessarily get ahead the fastest. 

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was easier to be promoted if threw your suboordinates under the bus and cashed in all their good morale to get promoted and then make the next person clean up the mess you deliberately made. 

My point is that it's an apples to oranges comparison. 

saglv -
Muscle Vision - 
CavemanDave -

Are you suggesting we make police military?

It’s the only answer Mr. Dave


What a bizarre assertion, lmao.

Its either make them military or do nothing. There is nothing in the middle to be done. 


 


 


 


 


Smh

Kings21 - 
saglv -
Muscle Vision - 
CavemanDave -

Are you suggesting we make police military?

It’s the only answer Mr. Dave


What a bizarre assertion, lmao.

Its either make them military or do nothing. There is nothing in the middle to be done. 


 


 


 


 


Smh


Exactly lol.


I just find the article intersting, particularly the juxtaposition of the way military members view their institutions and the way police view their institutions. That's it.

We definitely need to take a closer look at how police misconduct is handled.

It makes no sense that you have the majority of police misconduct being reviewed and decided internally. It makes even less sense, when a crime is committed, that the DA that works hand in hand with those officers to be responsible to bring the case.

All of these things should be handled independently. There should be a forum that doesn't come with the inherent bias.

Military would be better police than civilian police, imho.  

 

Not saying we should make them that way, etc., but which one is better?  That's an easy answer.

Road Warrior Fin -

Military would be better police than civilian police, imho.  


 


Not saying we should make them that way, etc., but which one is better?  That's an easy answer.

Uh no thanks

Its likely due to unions.

 

 

Sogsteel -

Its likely due to unions.


 


 

Military is not unionized...

TheHerps -
Sogsteel -

Its likely due to unions.


 


 

Military is not unionized...

exactly

Accountability starts at the top, if it's not their wipe it away and start over!

Greatest thing about enforcing accountability is that it is absolutely 100% free. Why troops in the field are subject to more accountability in a combat zone than a LEO stateside is ridiculous!

If I pulled the trigger and dumped someone, you best believe I had to justify turning that birthday off! There was no "We got you bro, don't worry"...nah your ass would be booted with the quickness!

I would address the issue initially in three ways (as I see it anyway):

1. Accountability
2. More rigorous selection process
3. Lengthen the training pipeline
4. Mandatory fitness standards (both mental and physical)
5. Time out of field for training, decompression




 

KaiTangata - Accountability starts at the top, if it's not their wipe it away and start over!

Greatest thing about enforcing accountability is that it is absolutely 100% free. Why an Operator in the field is subject to more accountability in as combat zone than a LEO stateside is ridiculous!

If I pulled the trigger and dumped someone, you best believe I had to justify turning that birthday off! There was no "We got you bro, don't worry"...nah your ass would be booted with the quickness!

I would address the issue initially in three ways (as I see it anyway):

1. Accountability
2. More rigorous selection process
3. Lengthen the training pipeline
4. Mandatory fitness standards (both mental and physical)
5. Time out of field for training, decompression






I like the idea that many have floated of requiring 4 hours a week of situational training/drilling or physical training (BJJ, other CQB).

Its like anything else... unless you're drilling these things, you're not going to be optimal and handling them in real life. Its like when you have sparred in a few months and get punched in the face again for the first time... it takes some consistency to be calm under that pressure.

BJJ Just like this!

DaveFu - 

BJJ Just like this!



Yeah, I'd inherently trust someone with atleast a blue belt with my neck than some fuck with no BJJ training and a whopping 6 months of police academy.

DaveFu -

210,000 Marines including reserves. 


99% of Marines answer to other Marines and don't have to wonder if their next paycheck is coming in. They also don't have to worry about their pay just being cut willy nilly or if the day they ride into Camp Pendleton at 530 is the day they eat a bullet. 


When you're a marine, you usually get a heads up of when you're going into harm's way. You also have clear rules of engagement and a chain of command authorizing specific applications of lethal force. Cops are finding out that even following their training can get them charged with capital murder if they're forced to defend themseleves. 


800,000 LEOs in the country. 


Cops answer to local, state, and national bureaucrats and politicians. They also know better than most that the cops who place the highest value on their team and suboordinates well-being don't necessarily get ahead the fastest. 


In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was easier to be promoted if threw your suboordinates under the bus and cashed in all their good morale to get promoted and then make the next person clean up the mess you deliberately made. 


My point is that it's an apples to oranges comparison. 

All of this.  It’s a pretty dumb comparison.  And the “answers to beurocrats/politicians” is a major problem. 

RdotC -
DaveFu - 

BJJ Just like this!


Yeah, I'd inherently trust someone with atleast a blue belt with my neck than some fuck with no BJJ training and a whopping 6 months of police academy.


Not sure if serious....because I trust no one!

saglv -
Kings21 - 
saglv -
Muscle Vision - 
CavemanDave -

Are you suggesting we make police military?

It’s the only answer Mr. Dave


What a bizarre assertion, lmao.

Its either make them military or do nothing. There is nothing in the middle to be done. 


 


 


 


 


Smh


Exactly lol.


I just find the article intersting, particularly the juxtaposition of the way military members view their institutions and the way police view their institutions. That's it.

You also have to remember that military members are heavily indoctrinated.  It’s not until you’re a salty e-4 Who can’t promote but is doing the e 6 jobs that you start to lose faith in the service.