Wiggy- Scrapper-Littlemick and the "in the know"

 Hey guys i am trying to see what is a optimal program or if it is too much or not

Wiggy - i know u have a workout product for MMA so i am mainly directing the question for u on this but others please feel free to respond

i started back to BJJ and along with it i have been doing weight training  --about damn time lol!!! :)

 as u guys probably lknow iam a big supporter of 5x5 format more or less. An oger posted a website called Stronglifts.com and decided to try it out although it was a 3 day set, i did it 2 days (or 2 workouts)

Now i  have done BJJ in the past and weight lifting but NEVER the two at the same time... mainly the last thing i wanted to do was lift weights ANYTIME after rolling 4-5 classses a week and basically  drop lifting while doing the other.

my plan is to do both now and perhaps there is a synergistic way of combining the 2 at the same time without over kill i guess is the word


my goal for bjj is 4 days a week (average 3)  ... as i mentioned the STronglifts.com routine is 3 days heavy... what would be a recommendation  ... to me i would figure i am just fine with 2 days heavy 5x5 and 3-4 days bjj but i wouild like to  hear from experts as far is it being to much with 4 bjj classes AND 3 heavy lifting days?  however i know in some philisophy of truth there is the virtue of  Less is More so that maybe  just as good.


SS :)

by the way the routine would look like this

M -w-F-Sat = bjj
tue-thur= lifting



 Two days of strength training per week is definitely enough to supplement your bjj.

Try it and see how you feel.

 Before giving an answer to your qustion(s), I'd just like to put the following questions out there:

-What sort of physical characteristics do you need?  The 5x5 is a strength-based program.  Is that what you're lacking in and need to develop?  If this is all about hobby/enjoyment, then that's cool.  But if you're lifting solely for the purpose of making your BJJ better, then you have to think about power (the ability to apply strength quickly), strength/power-endurance, muscular endurance/conditioning, cardiovascular conditioning, etc.  Do you need to work these into your S&C workouts?

All that said, twice/week is fine for your strength work.  I'd either go with reduced volume whole body workouts, or an upper/lower split.

Now that I'm home from the Middle East, I'm actually getting ready to start penning an "expansion pack" (for lack of a better term) for my "Working Class Fitness - The Programs" that will be based around 2-day workouts, and how to implement them for the busy person/athlete. 

Wiggy - MMA Workouts

Looking forward to new info Wiggy. Not sure I am looking for such a routine right now but I love seeing information and suggestions for "those in the know".

thanks fellaz :)

wiggy -- i know i may sound picky n greedy lol but i def want POWER along with conditioning ya know.... i guess to an extent i have to somewhat sacrifice one for the other?...i just wanted to add something to it outside "rolling" since i know i will get the conditioning/cardio from bjj alone. my main focus is to improve bjj tho

sS :)

 I know your post was directed towards Wiggy, but I hope you don't mind another perspective on things.  I personally believe you can develop power/strength and conditioning simultaneously, although if I read a recent article of Wiggy's that was posted on mmaweekly.com I don't think he feels the same.  I don't think you need to sacrifice one for the other.

I also don't think that it's sufficient to only get your conditioning from rolling.  I'm not advocating skipping skills training for S&C sessions, but I do feel that it's completely within reason to be able to do all these things simultaneously without experiencing burnout.

A sample scenario could be something along the lines of; 2 sessions per week geared towards developing strength, 2 sessions per week geared towards conditioning; 4 sessions per week of skill training.  A simple conditioning routine shouldn't last much more than 20 minutes (sometimes much less), so I find they are very easy to supplement any type of athletic training.  Strength sessions shouldn't be any more than an hour, again making it relatively easy to add this to your skills training.  The key is really how hard are you pushing yourself in each session.  You're only going to get out what you put in.  An honest effort yeilds an honest result.

If done properly the additional strength & conditioning training really does pay dividends in your skill training.  Trick is finding the right balance & fitting it all into a schedule that works with you.  There may be other factors involved; job, wife, kids, etc... that might not make the above scenario as plausible, but it's only one example.


my 0.02

FRAT warning!

I don't feel that you have to sacrifice strength/power development for conditioning at all. I think that it's more advantageous to focus on one or the other, so that more dramatic gains can be had in a shorter amount of time, rather than more mediocre gains across the board in the same time span. It also depends on the trainee him/herself, and what their needs are. Time isn't the only factor when considering adding S&C training to your schedule - you have to look at fatigue, recovery ability, as well as just plain burnout. This not only considers physical variables, but mental, emotional, and nervous variables as well.

You have to make sure your body can physically recover, we all know that. However, just b/c you're doing a short (and highly intense) routine (be it strength/power or conditioning) that you've found your body can recover from, doesn't mean your nervous system can. That's the catch 22 with many forms of S&C training - intensity and duration are inversely proportional. Shorter workouts are more intense, and might be easier to recover from physically, but take more out of your nervous system. Longer workouts, by nature, can't be as intense, and are therefore easier on the nervous system, however, they can be much more demanding physically. You need to find a good balance between both - esp. considering that you have to add the rigors of your skills training to the mix.

You also have to consider motivation. For most of us, this (mma, S&C, etc.) is more hobby than it is profession - you don't want to get to a point that you're dreading a workout, or that you just don't want to train. Training should be hard, but enjoyable (if that makes sense).

A lot of this is why I'm putting together the expansion pack based around 2-day workouts. While I was in the Middle East, I found that I experience much of the same sorts of challenges. It wasn't b/c skills training was taking a toll on me, but b/c the environment just sucked. We worked 7 days/week, 84+ hours/week. If you went a couple nights not sleeping good, or had to put in some extra hours, or spent time during the night in the bunker from IDF (instead of sleeping in bed), it could take it's toll on you - mentally and physically. I found that I might have stretches in which I could make all my workouts in a given week for a month, then I'd have a hard time getting just 2 workouts/week in. I found that if I put together 2-day programs the way I was, it allowed me to train pretty much when I could/wanted to, and if I had to skip some days, I could easily pick back up where I left off w/o having lost workouts, or having a jacked up schedule.

ANYWAY - back to SS's question, I'd focus on power/strength (do some basic strength work to keep strength up, while applying speed components to increase power), while doing a maintenance level for cardiovascular/muscular conditioning, since you're getting most of what you need for this in your rolling. Focus on what will make you better on the mat.


Hey Wiggy, I'm not sure if you posted it already but did you ever post what type of workouts you were doing over in Iraq? TTT

1arm and wiggy thanks a milliion - - it basically came down to as u both stated to figuring to combine the 2 aspects without losing a level in the other ( what i was really concerned about )

will try this out and YES i def want to get the focal point of all in rolling and the techs as the primary and use thepower/strength as a extra plus on top of that :)