Will the HG hate me for this?

Yup, superior wresting is what won that fight. I'm sure Oklahoma had something to do with it somehow too.

Well if you want to get technical about it, everyone has a different genetic VOmax capacity. The only people who are going to get very far in wrestling are those who are genetically capable. All others will wash out by high school or never make the college team.

Therefore what you're saying is, Frankie beat BJ because of genetic superiority. Afterall, I don't think anyone is questioning the techniques of the Marinovich's.

And so I suppose you'd also have to assume any rematch would go exactly the same way. I guess you could be a rich man betting on an eventual rematch. You should start squirreling money away right now.

Thunderlips The Ultimate Male - Alchemist,

One other thing you must realize. You are discussing an MMA fight and not amateur boxing. You don't get more points for touching your opponent in a scoring zone lol.

what I realize is your myopic points of view (especially anything having to do with wrestlers) are tired and unreasonable. BJ landed more power shots and stood in the middle of the ring stalking Edgar most of the fight.

I think you fail to realize BJ's gameplan, or lack of, actually made Frankie look better than he actually was. Head movement winning the match, ridiculous.

"Edgar will get better, Penn will be the same."

Interesting. You don't see anything Penn could have done differently? If this is the case, you should literally bet the house.

"Well I think Frankie has more upside for a rematch than BJ Penn does. Frankie still has lots of room to improve..."

Wait, but high level wrestling (and therefore genetic superiority) is what beat BJ, so where's the room to improve? He's the highest level wrestler he's gonna be already. Is he gonna get better conditioning? No, that he already has that via wrestling genetics. Will he improve in bjj? No sense, that's a dinosaur art. Will he become a better boxer? No sense, wrestling is God, and besides, he already out-boxed one of the greatest P4P fighters on planet Earth.

So what's all this improving going to be?


"I don't think BJ has as much room for improvement."

Hmm, well he just lost. I would think there's plenty of room for improvement. In fact, logically speaking, even moreso, no?

So I bet none of youthougt this thread would turn into this when I made it on Friday, did you?

Anyway, my two cents is a guy like Frankie gets to train in a room where everyone is hungry for the same thing, and everyone is at the same overall level - trying to make it to the top. BJ has been at the top for a long time, and has been the best guy in the room for a long time. it is hard to get better when you are are already the best guy in the room. It makes it too easy to coast in training, and to coast in fights as well. But when coasting doesnt work in a fight, you arent conditioned ( or in the kind of condition ) to be able to bite down on your mouth piece and get after it, it is hard to just out of the blue turn it up a few notches and reallt get after it.

i think it might be time for pat an i to start our mystery science theater style mma show.

Can I be on it as well?

i don't see why not. travel expense will not be reimbursed.

ye frankie's wrestling won the fight....he was able to take bj down and hold him down and dominate with his superior wrestling.....not
i hear people saying people thought bj won because of the announcers hyping it....i watched it 3 times and i hear them giving props to frankie more than bj....i guess i watched it in bizarro world

If you don't want to address any of the points, just say so.


Moke - If you don't want to address any of the points, just say so.

he stopped doing that about 14hrs ago.

"BJ is about as good as he is going to get at this point. If you don't agree with that I am not sure what I can tell you."

I've seen great improvement in all areas just in his previous two fights (not including this weekend). I see no reason to conclude why that trend is over.

"Edgar is still learning"

Like I said, if wrestling is where it's at, what's left to learn? His competition wrestling days and wrestling peak is behind him.

"Plus he does not have the cardio to really make strategic changes in how he fights."

He fought harder fights against Florian and Sanchez without gassing. I don't know why you keep bringing up gassing. Although I do agree with you that you cannot advance in wrestling without genetically superior cardio capacity, so guys like Frankie will always have an advantage there. However, as important as cardio is, it's only one piece of the puzzle...otherwise we could just crown Lance Armstrong as the king of MMA for this generation and stop wasting time with all this fighting nonsense.

And just so I'm super duper sure...you do not allow room in your opinions for off-nights, bad strategies, or bad execution. A fight's result is set in stone and could never go any other way?

You're talking 4th trimester abortion fren.

I'll just add that BJ didn't fight the "big man" fight. He's used to being the smaller man fighting against the big man strategy. He should have crowded, bullied, leaned on, and pushed Frankie against the cage like the bigger guys try to do to him.

He didn't use his size advantage at all...and needless to say, he should have taken it to the ground and peppered him there before going for the back.

"BJ would have been dead within 2 rounds if he fought that way and you know it. Penn has to counterbox and defend takedowns (pacing fight) because it is the only style he can fight without getting completely exhausted."

That's debatable. And even if it were the case previously, he was always fighting larger opponents. This time he was the bigger guy. Besides, GSP keeps saying that the guy who dictates the pace is the guy who isn't going to gas. Are you disagreeing with GSP?

redundant rhetoric is what we do.

lol, what is there without redundant rhetoric?