Wing Tsun better than boxing?

Look at this link and better start Wing Tsun right now .... or maybe not?

http://wingtsunwelt.vipex.net/english/wingtsun/experten/experten_02.html

Well, I'm not going to discount anything. Anything is possible.

However, the bit about wanting to learn scientific fighting that leaves "nothing to chance" just gets to me. People are basically in the search for the "unbeatable technique" or the "unbeatable art".

What they fail to realize is that training just shifts the odds in your favour. But you still might lose. Anything can happen. It's like the weather forecast. The weather man can't tell you if it will rain or shine - all he can tell you are the probabilities of stuff happening.

My 2 cents:

the effectiveness of a "style" lies PRIMARILY in how it's taught and trained.

If you take a karateka, and his training consists mostly of kata, he'll probably turn into a kata champion. Put him in a fight, and he's pretty much road kill.

If you take the same karateka, and train him like a thai fighter (thai pads, heavy bag, roadwork, sparring, etc.), there's a very good chance he'll become a good fighter.

Imagine if thai fighters trained like tai chi fighters? In slo-mo? No resistance? In a park?

The "ineffectiveness" of WT lies primarily in how it's taught and trained.

4 ranges,

dead on right.

I have more respect for shared training philosophies than commonalities of style, and would rather work with someone with the same training approach from a different 'style' than a different training approach in the same 'style' (prefering working live and with progressive resistance).

There is a fair-sized group within the WT community which trains intelligently- and probably over 100,000 who are lining KK's pockets.

Andrew

People are basically in the search for the "unbeatable technique" or the "unbeatable art".
Right on. I always want to ask them, "What if the other guy knows that style, too?" Someone has to lose, right? I'd ask, but I'm afraid of the answers I'd get.

What they fail to realize is that training just shifts the odds in your favour.
This is always my answer when someone asks me if I could kick so-and-so's ass. Just nudging the odds my way...

There is no Unbeatable Technique or any secret techniques that could be learnt and give you 100 per cent of a guarantee that you could beat anyone you fight whether trained martial artist or a street thug.

What really pisses me off is everytime I used to pick up a copy of Inside Kung Fu or Black Belt magazine, just read through it there is always an advertisment of newly formed unbeatable unstoppable techniques.
Some examples..... that SCARS advert, Tony Larkin, Paul Vunaks RAT system!
And all of those guys all claim that they EXCLUSIVELY train the Navy Seal and SWAT Teams etc...
Yeah and everything else is rubbish and a waste of time compared to their material.

Whatever

"SCARS advert, Tony Larkin, Paul Vunaks RAT system!"

Can't speak for the others, but Vunak's the real deal. Seriously. And he never said his is the "best" and that "everything else is rubbish and a waste of time compared to their material."

Whereupon KWJ promptly picked the correct up and spiked the poor bastid on its head (creative Biu Jee app, that ;)

I found that reading all the articles posted at www.wingchunkuen.com helped me understand some things about the true nature of wing chun that I didn't know before.

One thing I learned is that without a good amount of education and research into what wing chun REALLY is, then most anybody engaging in a conversation on the subject is probably misinformed.

Go to that site and read everything, it helps a lot.

"What really pisses me off is everytime I used to pick up a copy of Inside Kung Fu or Black Belt magazine..."

I stopped buying those mags when I realized they were just like women's magazines like Cosmo, etc.

Essentially, EACH issue is THE SAME with variations on a theme.

For instance, look at the cover of Cosmo, Elle, etc. - each issue has the same variation on a theme, i.e. "How to drive your man wild with these porno star moves", "How to lose 15 lbs in time for bikini season", "Movie stars reveal their fashion tips"...now look at the cover of Inside Kung Fu or Black Belt and you'll see the same articles again and again, i.e. "Is [insert name] the ultimate martial art?!?!", "How to hyper-charge your training!", "Movie stars reveal their martial arts work-out routine".

"For instance, look at the cover of Cosmo, Elle, etc. - each issue has the same variation on a theme, i.e. "How to drive your man wild with these porno star moves", "How to lose 15 lbs in time for bikini season"..."

Really?

*goes out and buys wife subscription to Cosmo*

Thanks for the kind words, Frost. Many people put a lot of time and effort into wingchunkuen.com, and I like to think that there is a good variety of informed opinion up there.

Unfortunately, due to the popularity of Bruce Lee, WCK spread very far very fast, and while there are some spectacularly knowledgeable teachers out there, there are also some who learned briefly from someone who learned briefly from...

WCK is pretty common sense, however, and if you always apply a critical mind, open but skeptical to it, you will probably do okay.

Primarily, it has to work, and not in years, but fairly soon after you start it. If it doesn't, if you don't get clear, sensible instruction, look elsewhere.

My late Sigung once said to me the only real secret in WCK was how to train it to fight. He didn't care if you demo'd the forms or blabbed the concepts, but the training work -- that was the gold.

BritishFanboy . . . I mean warrior:

Vunak has trained Muay Thai (Ajarn Chai), Jiu-Jitsu (Rickson and the Machados) since the mid 80's. He does not claim that his system is the "ultimate".

I would love to see wing chun sparring against other stylist CLIPs in stand up competition only. Anyone???

HEMAN it's your lucky day as one of the Wing Tsun instructors from Denmark just fought an mma fight this weekend and the clip is ofcourse online:

http://www.martialarts.dk/video/upcoming_301103.wmv

The opponent is some Shotokan guy I think. Enjoy ;-)

Nice. His opponent didn't look very good, but few people look good when they're losing. The Danish WT guys are cross-training BJJ now, so the armbar finish makes sense. The WT guy came in, put a lot of pressure on the other guy, landed some nice shots, and got one slick go behind with an elbow (neck pulling hand and kup jarn, fwiw). Pretty cool.

Andrew

I can't pull it up. :( It's not working...
I had some footage of my old school sparring with some san shou guys. I posted it awhile back.

is wing tsun better than boxing at what? you talking about fighting (in the ring or fighting on the street)?

here's a cruel truth=
'a punch is just a punch, as a kick is just a kick.'

how you figure it all works out depends on how you train it and if it fits you as an individual. in other words WT can work for some, while the same goes for boxing. I'd question the advertising tactics of any or all wing chun/wing tsun schools, since we are talking about WC/TC. of course question all advertising tactics of anything in martial arts and beyond.

It's whoever can connect with a solid shot FIRST.