winning by no-show

Underground
1

Hi guys,

just an interesting point for discussion.

Last fall, I traveled from my hometown in Canada down to Mexico for my pro MMA debut at Crown Fighting Championships IV. The promoter, incidentally, is Mr. Tony Perez, and is a fantastic guy. I would definately reccomend him and his shows to anyone.

My opponent showed up and passed the weigh-ins, pre-fight medical, et cetera, and was even warming up and posing for photos with me until about 10 minutes before our fight. When it was go time, nobody could find him. We delayed as long as possible, but finally referee Larry Landless brought me into the ring and raised my hand in victory.

Obviously pretty frustrating for me, as I really felt confident that I was going to win and flew in from Canada to make my debut. My "victory", such as it was, was made official by Mr. Landless as well as Mr. Perez and the Mexico sanctioning body. It was reported as a win for me in a variety of websites. However, neither Sherdog nor FCFighter credit me with the match.

As MMA becomes more mainstream, I think we all agree that there should be consensus on this sort of thing, just like universal weight classes and so forth. In other combat sports this sort of "win" is called a walk-over ( WO ), which is specifically when an opponent is present but literally leaves moments before the fight. It normally counts as a KO on fighter records, and titles have even been awarded this way in boxing and muay Thai. The WKA, for example, defines a WO as follows:

"victory by walk-over(WO):If one fighter is present in the ring and ready to fight and his/her opponent fails to show after his/her name has been called over the loudspeaker, the referee shall signal the referee's table to start with the running of 1 minute. If the opponent has not entered the ring within a time limit of 1 minute, the timekeeper shall strike the gong to signal that the match has been stopped. The referee shall then announce the fighter who was first in the ring and declare him/her the winner by "walk-over". The judges shall note this on their cards, which are then collected. The judges shall then summon the fighter who has won on walk-over to the centre of the ring, and thereafter the announcement of the decision, raise his/her hand and declare him/her the winner."

Personally, I favour the WO rule, as it penalizes fighters who cost their opponents such a let-down. Frankly, they deserve to have that loss on their records.

Thoughts?

2

I'd be fine with that.

3

Glad you agree. I mean, it's not the same as a no-show, where the guy for some reason doesn't make it to the event; we're talking about the guy being there, on-time, everything's A-OK and we're ready to go, and then he literally just picks up his bags and leaves moments before his fight, leaving his oppoent, the promoter, and all the fans hanging.

other thoughts?

4

Promoters should start a list of people who pull this crap..

5

You trained and you showed and deserve to be recognized for it. I feel the line in the sand is the weigh in if the opponent shows for the weigh in and then splits it should be a victory just like a fight it is not your fault an opponent is a punk.

6

Maybe the guy was taking a shit? I heard it's hard to undo shorts and groin protector with fight gloves on, even harder to wipe.

7

Thanks guys, I'm actually suprised by the consensus so far. As silly as it sounds, one of my goals with the fight was to get my name in a fighter database like Sherdog, 'cause damn, that's just so cool! I will fight again, but I sure would like to be credited with this one too. Like Phil said, i trained for it and showed up ready to win, and as a matter of fact, I did win - just not the way I would have prefered.

I also agree that a database of these guys would be a good thing, and as a matter of fact, putting WOs in databases like Sherdog would essentially be doing that and providing a good service to the sport.

To his credit, the promoter Mr. Perez paid me the winner's purse and presented me with a medal. He really is a class act, top to bottom.

8

You really should go one better and get listed as having a victory by TI (total intimidation) or ICB (invisible chi blast).

9

Yes, victory by Total Intimidation.  And the No-Shows record should show, loss by Total Intimidation. 

10

"Promoters should start a list of people who pull this crap.."

I agree that the promoters should submit this informatin to sanctioning bodies (SB) and that the SBs should consider the no-show a loss due to "WO".

If this were to occur, and the records were public, then a potential challenger could decide on whether or not to accept the risk of a no-show.

ttt for Sherdog and FCFighter to recognize these contest as a win and a loss (via WO) for the respective fighters.

11

This happened to one of my guys after driving over 3 hours to fight and he neither got compensated or a victory. I posted this when it happened and I feel for the sport to progress this needs to stop. I see incidents like this going down at most of the events and untill word gets around about these guys and they are penalized it continues to happen over and over again

I am always shocked when I go to these events and people no show or don't want to fight or for that matter are unprepared to get in the ring but this one really blows my mind John Gilligan the guy my fighter John Sivori is scheduled to fight takes the cake for bone head moves on Sat night.

Friday I talk to Bruce and he asks me what my guy weighs because he just heard Gilligan will be a little bit over. They are scheduled to fight at 205 and my guy is 195-197 without cutting so we have him weigh in fully dressed with "heavy" pockets he scales a 204. The weigh is at 4-5 pm the opponent gets "lost" and shows at around 7 right before the Athletic commission is closing up. We get him on the scale and he is 222 so after a 15 minute debate with the commission we get them to OK the fight We drove almost 4 hours for this event and sat around all day my guy could have cared less if he was 300 lbs he trained for the guy and wanted to fight. The opponent has not said a word up to this point about not wanting to fight. I leave the room to get me guy to start warming up and get his head into the fight and someone comes and get me and says the opponent is now refusing to fight. This is absolute unprofessional bullshit. If he did not want to fight why wait till the last minute. We wasted a day drove about 8 hours round trip my guy had friends buy tickets at the door after driving up from NY. This idiot should know the crap he put people through and promoters should know he is unreliable.

Once again I am venting and do not blame Bruce it is completely on Gilligan as a man is responsible for his own actions although as I told Bruce and honorable man would refund the tickets to the guys who came up only to leave before the fights started because their friend was not fighting and was leaving.

12

"This happened to one of my gays "

LMAO, Hope it's a typo.

13

That sucks, but the fact of the matter is that you can't win a fight that hasn't started.

And in my opinion the fight doesn't start until the referee signals for the bout to begin.

By your logic Kevin Randelman should have a loss on his record for when he slipped on the pipe backstage.

Anything else leaves a huge grey area.

14

What was his name?

15

I need to use spellcheck.

Plow I see your point on that and there is a grey area but in the Randleman case an AC would not allow the fight because of injury. I think there needs to be a way to deal with these types of issues

16

ur win

17

Mr. Plow is loser, and I hear he is a boozer. Mr. Plow!

If you got this name from the Simpsons you will understand.

But, respectfully, I disagree on that grey area, or at least on the potential magnitude of confusion. It's a lot of common sense.

If a fighter does not show up to fight he is punished with a loss. A fighter must get in the ring and fight. He must avoid slipping on a pipe, but if he does so and the doctor cannot medically clear him for the fight, then that is a no-contest due to no medical clearance.

There are medical checkups a few hours before a fight under the assumption that not much will change in those hours, if something does change then the doctor can do another check.

If someone just no-shows, they lost (maybe the win is not earned, but it has to balance out the loss -- but that's another debate).

18

Hey Grizzly!
Good to see that you're still at it! You can build a rep around people fleeing the venue once they meet you. I know you'll do great with your pro MMA career.

best wishes,

Demetre (QBC alumni)
-4de1 was my qlink account

19

Wasn't it technically a "no contest"? I could see the promoter giving you the winner's purse (if he decided to do so), but to say that you "won" doesn't seem to make much sense, does it?

20

On the inverse, promoters who book you then drop your fight should be responsible.. I SIGNED A CONTRACT for one show, was training for three weeks and arranged the time off work. I knew who my opponent was going to be and everything. I heard from another fighter the show was cancelled. After me e-mailing the matchmaker a few times, he finally got back to me to let me know. This organization still has shows and I asked to be rebooked for another show.. still hasnt happened. The guy I signed the contract with is no longer with the promotion I am out a weekends work (I am a bartender so at least 300 bucks) and I turned down a fight with another organization that was scheduled for a week later.

As far as Mr. Tony Perez goes, he is a class act, everyone speaks highly of him.