Without a vision the people perish

Well from my understanding a more appropriate translation of this scripture is without a vision the people will be unrestrained. But thinking nationally, it would mean that with everyone doing their own thing, the nation of Israel cannot move forward, and provide stability, protection ect.

So maybe as the year is starting we can look at this idea of vision. This year, what is the vision we all have for the holyground?

If we could decide what it is, what it could be, what would be good, and right, we may be able to create something that is better than what we have now.

What is your vision for the holyground?


I have vision of the HG where this guy no longer posts here:


so first thing we do is get rid of Jesus?

Or did you mean Bludhall?



That's David Brent!

If you treat the people around you with love and respect, they will never guess that you're trying to get them sacked.
David Brent

Is taking this post seriously an option at all?


If this is a forum for debate then it will always have the negative aspects you don't like Rev.  The other option is to make this a place only for sharing ideas, essays, poems, sermons, verses, etc.  Also the prayer requests and things like Sherm's program. 

Honestly school is firing up so I don't think I am going to be on here for months and probably shouldn't have an opinion on where it goes from here. 

I was not suggesting anything Ridge, just asking what do we want it to be?


I'd like it to be a place where people might set aside their personal beliefs in order to explore ideas properly. As it is we always come up against beliefs which kind of stifles debate.

The most obvious example is in prof's thought experiments where people refuse to partake from the start and they therefore don't work properly. I'd say that we are all pretty sure of what the other's believe..we could all do with relaxing a little.

Yes I agree, I've been guilty of this.

By "setting aside personal beliefs" I don't mean people changing their minds etc..more along the lines of just trying other people's ideas out to see what they are like. Before I came to this forum for example, I'd never really read much of the bible or tried to pray (beyond childish stuff). I'm glad that I have begun to expand my horizons a bit. I guess arguments are still inevitable but I'd like to see more threads where people argree to try something, read something or think something, rather than discounting it without trying.

Ive said repeatedly the reason I come here is pretty simple. I desire to discuss religion in an open and challenging way. You will not find this sort of ability in a church. Chruches are bastions of belief and to partake in it you must conform to that groups belief.

I have yet to enter a church or engage in a discussion with church members and pose problems and issues without being given a subliminal mandate to convert or I have a problem and need to convert of leave because IM WRONG and in possible limob regarding hell.

Leave it as it is. For what its worth like chance said, this place has re awakened my interest in christianity and spirituality in general. The handful of regulars here represent the diverstity of the religious world and that is a good thing. Ive learned alot from people I disagree with. What could be better to broaden and deepen our understanding of issues ? You wont find this ability at your local strip mall church.

oh, this is a paradise lost.


I know you weren't suggesting that.  I see debate/argument at the heart of most of the negative aspects of this forum and I don't know how to separate the good from the bad.


I know what you mean.  I will give an exception to the Orthodox priest I have been in dialogue with.  He doesn't get offended when I ask him the hard questions and has never pushed when it comes to conversion. 

We should just make the HG an NT Wright resource center. 

"We should just make the HG an NT Wright resource center."

I did like his sermon someone posted on here, any other links to his work would be greatly appreciated.

Here's enough material to keep you busy for life:



I dunno.....

I don't post very much, but I read the threads. The previous posts pretty much reflect my feelings.

My first response is to continue to learn from others and share what's going on in my life, things like books and websites I have found helpful.

For example, I really appreciate Ridgeback posting links on various topics and I'm looking forward to reading NT Wright.

Although I don't really grow spiritually from the debate threads I do learn something now and again. I don't have time to read through 95% of it.

I think my vision is that we would reflect the character of Christ. That we would connect and grow together. For me, it also has to be fun. I come on here as a break during the day.