JeffersonDArcyChoke - I think it was fixed and Ken decided to hold them up for more money last second.
As in, "Pay me more or I embarrass your guy on CBS".
They decided they'd grab anyone and since it wasn't a guy with a name that meant he had no shot of beating Kimbo.
They screwed up and Seth made history.
I think you are probably very close to the truth.
I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but after watching Tank purposefully fall on his face against Kimbo like he was KO'd I realized some shady shit was going on. Tank's dive to Kimbo was one of the worst I've ever seen. Early Pride works were better.
I doubt it was Ken trying to hold them up for more money at the last minute though. Probably some other conflict they had that wasn't being resolved to Ken's satisfaction and he just said fuck it.
Really? I thought it looked pretty legit. Ill have to rewatch it
It's been awhile since I've seen it but watch the way he falls. That was the tip off (for me at least). The prior Kimbo fight where the guy taps out after getting punched in the shoulder didn't help to make it look legitimate either.
If youre talking about the Bo Cantrell fight, I agree that was absolutely shameful.
I wouldnt have been surprised if Elitexc offered Tank money to take a dive and Tank refused.
Guys, Ken Shamrock won 3 of 10 since the last time he was in the UFC. One of his last wins was to a fat guy with no training who died of a heart attack less than a year later, AND Ken tested positive for that one.
This doesn't say anything about Ken's skills in his prime, but at the time they were going to fight, he would have gotten knocked out. There was a big experience gap between Kimbo and the pros he was thrown against, but the dude was a natural fighter with as raw power as you can get. And yeah, he did throw Mitrione around until he gassed. His knee was fucked at that point too, and Mitrione attacked it mercilessly. I think his body was not conditioned for the rigors of professional MMA, but the dude was talented, and was working on getting skilled.
I realize it's vogue to say Kimbo would lose to anybody but the truth is he wouldn't.
This is the guy who tossed Mitrione around until he gassed, KO'd James Thompson and Tank Abbott, choked out Mercer and went 2 rounds with Roy Nelson.
Ken Shamrock was at LEAST as shot as Tank Abbott losing to scrubs in Cage Rage.
Kimbo would've put him away.
You can go back to saying how everybody beats him now.
The Thomspon fight was a bullshit stoppage, period. Fuck Mirgliotta and fuck Elite XC. That was only Mitrione's second fight, and I think the Kimbo of two years later that Mitrione fought was certainly a better fighter than the one that was lined up to fight Shamrock anyway.
Nelson seemed content to win the fight by taking the least amount of damage possible, so he could win the next fights in the house without issue. It worked, but I think the way he fought sucked though from a viewers perspective. Not to mention the way he basically mentioned "just doing enough to win by throwing small shots when on top" on the show kind of irked me at the time.
I agree Shamrock was pretty much shot by that time, but if he took the fight even somewhat seriously, he could have got the take down and won with ease. Probably would have ended up being a worked fight though.
I realize it's vogue to say Kimbo would lose to anybody but the truth is he wouldn't.
This is the guy who tossed Mitrione around until he gassed, KO'd James Thompson and Tank Abbott, choked out Mercer and went 2 rounds with Roy Nelson.
Ken Shamrock was at LEAST as shot as Tank Abbott losing to scrubs in Cage Rage.
Kimbo would've put him away.
You can go back to saying how everybody beats him now.
The Thomspon fight was a bullshit stoppage, period. Fuck Mirgliotta and fuck Elite XC. That was only Mitrione's second fight, and I think the Kimbo of two years later that Mitrione fought was certainly a better fighter than the one that was lined up to fight Shamrock anyway.
Nelson seemed content to win the fight by taking the least amount of damage possible, so he could win the next fights in the house without issue. It worked, but I think the way he fought sucked though from a viewers perspective. Not to mention the way he basically mentioned "just doing enough to win by throwing small shots when on top" on the show kind of irked me at the time.
I agree Shamrock was pretty much shot by that time, but if he took the fight even somewhat seriously, he could have got the take down and won with ease. Probably would have ended up being a worked fight though.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to not give Kimbo an ounce of credit. Anybody can write off victories with any random explanation. I prefer to look at the facts as is, the guy showed promise and proved it for being brand new in the sport. No, old Shamrock would've never won 'with ease', he wasn't in the 'with ease' phase of his life. He was losing to unknowns at that point. So yea, I hardily disagree.
Gary Shaw was shady as fuck and ken has taken dives before. Also, he's been a guy looking to just collect paycheck for a while. So no ken would not have won.
I realize it's vogue to say Kimbo would lose to anybody but the truth is he wouldn't.
This is the guy who tossed Mitrione around until he gassed, KO'd James Thompson and Tank Abbott, choked out Mercer and went 2 rounds with Roy Nelson.
Ken Shamrock was at LEAST as shot as Tank Abbott losing to scrubs in Cage Rage.
Kimbo would've put him away.
You can go back to saying how everybody beats him now.
The Thomspon fight was a bullshit stoppage, period. Fuck Mirgliotta and fuck Elite XC. That was only Mitrione's second fight, and I think the Kimbo of two years later that Mitrione fought was certainly a better fighter than the one that was lined up to fight Shamrock anyway.
Nelson seemed content to win the fight by taking the least amount of damage possible, so he could win the next fights in the house without issue. It worked, but I think the way he fought sucked though from a viewers perspective. Not to mention the way he basically mentioned "just doing enough to win by throwing small shots when on top" on the show kind of irked me at the time.
I agree Shamrock was pretty much shot by that time, but if he took the fight even somewhat seriously, he could have got the take down and won with ease. Probably would have ended up being a worked fight though.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to not give Kimbo an ounce of credit. Anybody can write off victories with any random explanation. I prefer to look at the facts as is, the guy showed promise and proved it for being brand new in the sport. No, old Shamrock would've never won 'with ease', he wasn't in the 'with ease' phase of his life. He was losing to unknowns at that point. So yea, I hardily disagree.
Excuses, random explanation? Mitrione was newer in the sport than Kimbo and WON the fight. Going to the second round with somebody who is trying their best to "not fight" to win a fight and still losing doesnt say much. Although I dont agree with how safe Roy played it, I understand why. The Thomspon stoppage was bullshit, you wont find many people arguing otherwise.
I dont think the Tank fight was a work, you could even see at one point he threw some punches and kind of had this "wtf am I doing look" of frustration. He knew he was done for. Ray Mercer fight was actually funny, Kimbo by sub should be the new Rickson by armbar!
Step your reading comprehension up, if Shamrock got the takedown (and there is a high likely hood that he would, but the point here is IF), he would have won with ease. If he tried the Andy Wang approach at that point, he would have gotten kilt (literally made to wear a man's dress), more than likely anyway. Then again, Kimbo got ko'd by a Seth jab, so no telling.
He opted to not take a second chance on TUF, and the Houston fight was an abomination.
Ken wigged out because Andrei Arkovski was getting paid more, was demanding crazy concessions and changes right before the fight. Ken gets all nervous and works himself up into a near panic. All the sudden he leave US Olympic wrestling coach Brandon Slay who was hired to help him get ready and hurts himself warming up grappling with his bodybuilder buddy from Modesto. Aka blade jobbed. The look on his face when Seth KOed Kimbo was unreal.
I realize it's vogue to say Kimbo would lose to anybody but the truth is he wouldn't.
This is the guy who tossed Mitrione around until he gassed, KO'd James Thompson and Tank Abbott, choked out Mercer and went 2 rounds with Roy Nelson.
Ken Shamrock was at LEAST as shot as Tank Abbott losing to scrubs in Cage Rage.
Kimbo would've put him away.
You can go back to saying how everybody beats him now.
The Thomspon fight was a bullshit stoppage, period. Fuck Mirgliotta and fuck Elite XC. That was only Mitrione's second fight, and I think the Kimbo of two years later that Mitrione fought was certainly a better fighter than the one that was lined up to fight Shamrock anyway.
Nelson seemed content to win the fight by taking the least amount of damage possible, so he could win the next fights in the house without issue. It worked, but I think the way he fought sucked though from a viewers perspective. Not to mention the way he basically mentioned "just doing enough to win by throwing small shots when on top" on the show kind of irked me at the time.
I agree Shamrock was pretty much shot by that time, but if he took the fight even somewhat seriously, he could have got the take down and won with ease. Probably would have ended up being a worked fight though.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to not give Kimbo an ounce of credit. Anybody can write off victories with any random explanation. I prefer to look at the facts as is, the guy showed promise and proved it for being brand new in the sport. No, old Shamrock would've never won 'with ease', he wasn't in the 'with ease' phase of his life. He was losing to unknowns at that point. So yea, I hardily disagree.
Excuses, random explanation? Mitrione was newer in the sport than Kimbo and WON the fight. Going to the second round with somebody who is trying their best to "not fight" to win a fight and still losing doesnt say much. Although I dont agree with how safe Roy played it, I understand why. The Thomspon stoppage was bullshit, you wont find many people arguing otherwise.
I dont think the Tank fight was a work, you could even see at one point he threw some punches and kind of had this "wtf am I doing look" of frustration. He knew he was done for. Ray Mercer fight was actually funny, Kimbo by sub should be the new Rickson by armbar!
Step your reading comprehension up, if Shamrock got the takedown (and there is a high likely hood that he would, but the point here is IF), he would have won with ease. If he tried the Andy Wang approach at that point, he would have gotten kilt (literally made to wear a man's dress), more than likely anyway. Then again, Kimbo got ko'd by a Seth jab, so no telling.
He opted to not take a second chance on TUF, and the Houston fight was an abomination.
Yes, excuses. You picked like 5 fights and just explained how Kimbo deserves credit for nine of it. I don't need to comprehend that, you explained it AGAIN. It was all circumstantial that Kimbo managed to win fights, he wasn't responsible for learning enough to cause problems. He even learned enough of the ground game to sub people.
Your contention is that old Ken Shamrock, who was on a solid losing streak against unknowns would still win 'with ease' against a guy who was a a solid up and comer. Where did these abilities come from? He was on the bottom side of his career and he would've been fighting a legit heavyweight.
