I was wondering how would a top level freestyle or greco-roman wrestler fair against an equally skilled top level judoka in a hybrid style wrestling/judo match? Lets say for the basic rules you had: 1.) Both opponents wear a Gi 2.)Takedowns are scored as they are in international wrestling, with the addition of ippon 3.)You can win by touch fall, or submission. Imagine someone like Dan Gable or Alexandrde Karelin going up against an Olympic judoka, that would be cool as hell.
Actually, that depends. Some wrestlers learn how to use a jacket pretty quickly, others don't.
I watched a former national champ freestyle wrestler put on a gi and train with a former national champ judo player, and toss the judo player a number of times, using judo style throws... and I saw some wrestlers that were more successful than the first one train with the same judoka, and get tossed around.
In a jacket, the wrestler stands very little chance. Without it, the judoka dosnt.
My guess is that the stance allowed would at least determine as much as the jacket when it comes to throwing. In a competition between national level competitors with jackets under the rules specified my guess is what is more likely to happen is either the wrestler wins by touch fall or the judo player wins by submission (assuming we are talking pure sport player, not cross trained).
A freestyle wrestler's normal stance is illegal in Judo (at least that is my understanding). If both guys are allowed whatever stance they want it becomes much more difficult for the judo player to throw the wrestler.
Having only about a year and a half of judo experience here is what I think is the deal. The wrestling stance is in no way ilegal in judo, but stalling and being non combative will get you penalized. A lot of begginers in Judo will adopt this stance as a defensive measure and do nothing. If you atack regularly from it you will not receive a penalty. Now, as to it being harder to throw people from this stance that seriously depends on the situation. A lot of Judoka love for people to adopt this stace since it alows them to get over the back grips and even belt grips, wich as you can imagine can lead to all sorts of nasty throws. One of my coaches a Judo 3rd dan who has been very succesfull atn pan-am and central american games level, just loves for guys to get in this position. Since they set themselves up perfectly for his ken ken style Uchimata.
Ok I think I've gone over my newbie quota here.
will go back to lurking
Thanks for correcting me on that. I only did about 1 year of judo and that was private lessons from a Korean cop that only taught self defense, not competition.
One thing I don't understand though is how you are going to get over the back grips on a good wrestler (I am sure that it is just my inexperience). I can see getting the grips on a bad wrestler (like me) that leans over, but not on a good wrestler, that stays in position. It appears that anyone going for an over the back grip is going to leave themself wide open for either some type of duckunder or bodylock attack.
I guess it all depends on the speed and skill of the two players involved. Sorta like trowing a left hook. You leave yourself open for a right cross, but if you are faster than the other guy , or the other guy doesnt seize the oportunity then you are good to go.
At the end of the day its not the how tools that matter as mush as who is ussing them.