Who are you Affiliated with?
What benefits do you get from your Affiliation?
Nowadays it seems like people are getting more than a few discounted seminars a year. Id like to hear what different peoples affiliations entail thanks! 
I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
But it has almost ALWAYS been that way with most organizations; Associate, train with black belt 2 or 3 seminars a year, etc.
shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.I was watching an interview with Tim Sled of Atos and at least it seemed that they were doing things differently.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
I can agree depending on the situation. Affiliations can honestly be good or bad depending on what things entail. The trick is that most in martial arts are shitty at business so they have no clue how to properly analyze what they are getting when they affiliate, so sometimes the level of affiliation or people they affiliate with may not be in tune w what they are wanting/spending for. Its why its important to have a criteria of what you want, be able to logically break down if the affiliation gives you actual benefit (for you personally and for your students), are your thoughts in line w the association heads, etc. etc.
Access to training camps and seminars. Access to their teaching tools and DVDs that's aren't available to the public. And,yes, seminars 
I proudly wear my affiliation with Harris International at every opportunity, because it's not like the "big orgazniations". It's about my relationship with my instructor.
There are no big annual dues (in fact, he got rid of dues entirely and just asked that we take a private lesson per year, at a discount)
There are no required events to host (although he offered me a discount to host seminars, which I jumped at).
There are no required uniforms (though I managed to get my hands on one of his signature uniforms, which is awesome).
There are no binding curricula or policies (although he offered me tremendous insight and assistance with mine). The two rules are: stay clear of drama and bad politics.
And what did I receive for my affiliation? TONS. Amazing training from the most analytical instructor I've ever met in the Martial Arts. Video updates. Online updates. Calls, texts, and emails to check in and see if I needed any help. Discounted private lessons. Free private lessons. Free workshops. (He even flew out to me once to make a special guest appearance at an event I was hosting, without telling anyone or charging me a dime, and he taught a workshop while he was here!) A connection to the greatest network of people I've ever met (this association is FILLED with incredible people). And a relationship with an amazing human being whose commitment and integrity have passed well beyond simply being my instructor, to being like family.
I will continue to proudly represent Roy Harris and his BJJ, JKD, FMA, and Grappling Associations at every opportunity. I cannot say enough good things about him, or his organizations.
DGC -shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.I was watching an interview with Tim Sled of Atos and at least it seemed that they were doing things differently.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
Haven't seen the vid but watching a local association hopper jump right to Atos as his third (at least) association after getting his blackbelt makes me think otherwise. Social media went from being spammed with with Ciao Terra Association name drops to Atos banners and gear everywhere from one week to the next.
Guy actually has decent (club level black belt) jiujitsu but the notion that "these are Atos guys" being taught by an Atos blackbelt is only correct to the extent of the rubber stamp and the signage.
twinkletoesCT -
I proudly wear my affiliation with Harris International at every opportunity, because it's not like the "big orgazniations". It's about my relationship with my instructor.
There are no big annual dues (in fact, he got rid of dues entirely and just asked that we take a private lesson per year, at a discount)
There are no required events to host (although he offered me a discount to host seminars, which I jumped at).
There are no required uniforms (though I managed to get my hands on one of his signature uniforms, which is awesome).
There are no binding curricula or policies (although he offered me tremendous insight and assistance with mine). The two rules are: stay clear of drama and bad politics.
And what did I receive for my affiliation? TONS. Amazing training from the most analytical instructor I've ever met in the Martial Arts. Video updates. Online updates. Calls, texts, and emails to check in and see if I needed any help. Discounted private lessons. Free private lessons. Free workshops. (He even flew out to me once to make a special guest appearance at an event I was hosting, without telling anyone or charging me a dime, and he taught a workshop while he was here!) A connection to the greatest network of people I've ever met (this association is FILLED with incredible people). And a relationship with an amazing human being whose commitment and integrity have passed well beyond simply being my instructor, to being like family.
I will continue to proudly represent Roy Harris and his BJJ, JKD, FMA, and Grappling Associations at every opportunity. I cannot say enough good things about him, or his organizations.
I can certainly understand what you're getting out of it, but what is he getting out of it? Why would the Mendes Brothers, Atos, Cobrinha, let a bunch of people use their brand, deliver them free material/help/seminars, and in exchange receive nothing but praise?
The affiliations are using the brand to sell memberships to the public. Why should the brand not be fairly compensated in exchange? So should I be able to use the "McDonalds" brand to sell my burgers, but refuse to adhere to any of their policies/rules/fees; thus compromising their brand with my choices?
BTW, this post is not a knock on you specifically, but rather to keep the discussion going
EvilGumby -DGC -shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.I was watching an interview with Tim Sled of Atos and at least it seemed that they were doing things differently.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
Haven't seen the vid but watching a local association hopper jump right to Atos as his third (at least) association after getting his blackbelt makes me think otherwise. Social media went from being spammed with with Ciao Terra Association name drops to Atos banners and gear everywhere from one week to the next.
Guy actually has decent (club level black belt) jiujitsu but the notion that "these are Atos guys" being taught by an Atos blackbelt is only correct to the extent of the rubber stamp and the signage.
Just to clarify, the guy earned his black from CT, became a CT affiliate, and then switched to ATOS? Ramon will allow you to claim his banner, even if you aren't his BB?
We are a very small association. The head instructor kind of oversees everything from a far and let's us (the head instructors) do things on our own. We kind of get freedom on what and how to teach. But he is the one who gives the green light when it comes to promotions. He comes in and rolls with students and does seminars every other month so we see him quite a bit and and also is available for privates to train.
ninja316 - We are a very small association. The head instructor kind of oversees everything from a far and let's us (the head instructors) do things on our own. We kind of get freedom on what and how to teach. But he is the one who gives the green light when it comes to promotions. He comes in and rolls with students and does seminars every other month so we see him quite a bit and and also is available for privates to train.Whats your association?
The Maestro -twinkletoesCT -
I proudly wear my affiliation with Harris International at every opportunity, because it's not like the "big orgazniations". It's about my relationship with my instructor.
There are no big annual dues (in fact, he got rid of dues entirely and just asked that we take a private lesson per year, at a discount)
There are no required events to host (although he offered me a discount to host seminars, which I jumped at).
There are no required uniforms (though I managed to get my hands on one of his signature uniforms, which is awesome).
There are no binding curricula or policies (although he offered me tremendous insight and assistance with mine). The two rules are: stay clear of drama and bad politics.
And what did I receive for my affiliation? TONS. Amazing training from the most analytical instructor I've ever met in the Martial Arts. Video updates. Online updates. Calls, texts, and emails to check in and see if I needed any help. Discounted private lessons. Free private lessons. Free workshops. (He even flew out to me once to make a special guest appearance at an event I was hosting, without telling anyone or charging me a dime, and he taught a workshop while he was here!) A connection to the greatest network of people I've ever met (this association is FILLED with incredible people). And a relationship with an amazing human being whose commitment and integrity have passed well beyond simply being my instructor, to being like family.
I will continue to proudly represent Roy Harris and his BJJ, JKD, FMA, and Grappling Associations at every opportunity. I cannot say enough good things about him, or his organizations.
I can certainly understand what you're getting out of it, but what is he getting out of it? Why would the Mendes Brothers, Atos, Cobrinha, let a bunch of people use their brand, deliver them free material/help/seminars, and in exchange receive nothing but praise?
The affiliations are using the brand to sell memberships to the public. Why should the brand not be fairly compensated in exchange? So should I be able to use the "McDonalds" brand to sell my burgers, but refuse to adhere to any of their policies/rules/fees; thus compromising their brand with my choices?
BTW, this post is not a knock on you specifically, but rather to keep the discussion going
Complete guess here:
It prob has to do w the association head just wanting people that they can relate to vs accepting anyone that will cut a check (lets face it most big associations in all martial arts don't care about quality control and instead want that check, its just a fact of business). This way the lure of a quick payout isn't there so they can be a LOT more picky on who to let in as you can't just flash cash. When people see that you want them in your group for them vs for a paycheck, they will generally be more loyal and then WANT to bring you out for stuff like seminars and push your merchandise as again you have shown you are not about $ only.
Mind you I am not saying people shouldn't pay some sort of dues and have association people out for something like seminars. Just explaining maybe how Harris runs his.
And on a final note, the branding of most associations honestly is laughable. The general public doesn't know the difference between big or small associations. If anything only the Gracie Academy REALLY for the general public has any sort of true branding power (and that is still sole to do w Royce's accomplishments).
The issue boils down to this: Do you want a big name affiliation, which likely comes with a big price tag and lacks of much personalized attention, or do you prefer a tighter relationship with your instructor without the big expense? Is the value of the big name worth the expense? Does hanging a Gracie Barra shingle on your building bring in enough additional students to make it a net positive?
I don't run an academy, but if I did, I would need pretty compelling evidence that affiliating with a big name brought enough additional students to offset the cost. And even then, I'd probably prefer to associate with an instructor who is committed to helping me grow and gives me total access to them. Pedro Sauer has over 100 affiliates. How much personal attention will that get you? Not much. You're probably lucky to get a seminar every few years.
EvilGumby -Same thing just happened in my town. I kinda SMH when I heard about it. I would of respected it more if he had trained with Andre or Ramon and decided these were the guys from him but it was purely a brand thingDGC -shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.I was watching an interview with Tim Sled of Atos and at least it seemed that they were doing things differently.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
Haven't seen the vid but watching a local association hopper jump right to Atos as his third (at least) association after getting his blackbelt makes me think otherwise. Social media went from being spammed with with Ciao Terra Association name drops to Atos banners and gear everywhere from one week to the next.
Guy actually has decent (club level black belt) jiujitsu but the notion that "these are Atos guys" being taught by an Atos blackbelt is only correct to the extent of the rubber stamp and the signage.
. But then again you can't live under a rock. For some people Jiu jitsu IS a business and they HAVE to make money off it. Guys like this is why we get to train in nice big clean academies and not dirty stanky hole in the wall. There are only so many Rob Zeps
The Maestro -EvilGumby -DGC -shark tank - I feel that affiliating is what is ruining jiu jitsu. Buying into organizations for the purpose of attracting students and commercializing the gym is allowing for bigger profits for big names but it is a false representation of jiu jitsu.I was watching an interview with Tim Sled of Atos and at least it seemed that they were doing things differently.
Now, when someone posts that they are a member of "X" association, we have no clue if they ever really trained with the person. Showing up for a couple of seminars a years does not count as training under the person. These cash grabs by black belts are really depressing.
Haven't seen the vid but watching a local association hopper jump right to Atos as his third (at least) association after getting his blackbelt makes me think otherwise. Social media went from being spammed with with Ciao Terra Association name drops to Atos banners and gear everywhere from one week to the next.
Guy actually has decent (club level black belt) jiujitsu but the notion that "these are Atos guys" being taught by an Atos blackbelt is only correct to the extent of the rubber stamp and the signage.
Just to clarify, the guy earned his black from CT, became a CT affiliate, and then switched to ATOS? Ramon will allow you to claim his banner, even if you aren't his BB?
Guy joined CTA as a brown Repped CTA publicly at every opportunity until he got his black from CTA. Immediately jumped ship to Atos and floods social media with Atos banners everywhere he can fit them.
Hunter V -The Maestro -twinkletoesCT -
I proudly wear my affiliation with Harris International at every opportunity, because it's not like the "big orgazniations". It's about my relationship with my instructor.
There are no big annual dues (in fact, he got rid of dues entirely and just asked that we take a private lesson per year, at a discount)
There are no required events to host (although he offered me a discount to host seminars, which I jumped at).
There are no required uniforms (though I managed to get my hands on one of his signature uniforms, which is awesome).
There are no binding curricula or policies (although he offered me tremendous insight and assistance with mine). The two rules are: stay clear of drama and bad politics.
And what did I receive for my affiliation? TONS. Amazing training from the most analytical instructor I've ever met in the Martial Arts. Video updates. Online updates. Calls, texts, and emails to check in and see if I needed any help. Discounted private lessons. Free private lessons. Free workshops. (He even flew out to me once to make a special guest appearance at an event I was hosting, without telling anyone or charging me a dime, and he taught a workshop while he was here!) A connection to the greatest network of people I've ever met (this association is FILLED with incredible people). And a relationship with an amazing human being whose commitment and integrity have passed well beyond simply being my instructor, to being like family.
I will continue to proudly represent Roy Harris and his BJJ, JKD, FMA, and Grappling Associations at every opportunity. I cannot say enough good things about him, or his organizations.
I can certainly understand what you're getting out of it, but what is he getting out of it? Why would the Mendes Brothers, Atos, Cobrinha, let a bunch of people use their brand, deliver them free material/help/seminars, and in exchange receive nothing but praise?
The affiliations are using the brand to sell memberships to the public. Why should the brand not be fairly compensated in exchange? So should I be able to use the "McDonalds" brand to sell my burgers, but refuse to adhere to any of their policies/rules/fees; thus compromising their brand with my choices?
BTW, this post is not a knock on you specifically, but rather to keep the discussion going
Complete guess here:
It prob has to do w the association head just wanting people that they can relate to vs accepting anyone that will cut a check (lets face it most big associations in all martial arts don't care about quality control and instead want that check, its just a fact of business). This way the lure of a quick payout isn't there so they can be a LOT more picky on who to let in as you can't just flash cash. When people see that you want them in your group for them vs for a paycheck, they will generally be more loyal and then WANT to bring you out for stuff like seminars and push your merchandise as again you have shown you are not about $ only.
Mind you I am not saying people shouldn't pay some sort of dues and have association people out for something like seminars. Just explaining maybe how Harris runs his.
And on a final note, the branding of most associations honestly is laughable. The general public doesn't know the difference between big or small associations. If anything only the Gracie Academy REALLY for the general public has any sort of true branding power (and that is still sole to do w Royce's accomplishments).
Maestro - great question to keep things moving.
Hunter - I think you're right on track.
I know in Roy Harris' case, he wanted to stand out as an association built on quality relationships and information, not a big fee for a gi patch and a quarterly newsletter. When I joined in 2002, that was what the other orgs were offering. Also, Roy had just been in a truck accident that nearly killed him - he was thrown from his vehicle and woke up in the hospital days later. He felt this was a major wake up call: if he didn't get out there and share with the world, then he might just miss his opportunity.
At the same time, he also decided to shrink his academy, because he no longer knew every student by name. He said he didn't like feeling that it had become impersonal, so he limited new enrollments to only 2 months each year (and later, I think, down to only January). IIRC, he dropped it from something like 150 or 180 students down to about 50, with whom he could invest more of his time.
Incidentally, I see this as representing a certain balancing act between delivering value, and create profit. This seems to be where most associations fall too short...I think perhaps Mr. Harris falls too far in the other direction (he's selfless to the point that I wonder if it's worth the trouble to him). I often wonder what the perfect model would be -- something that delivers top notch quality to its members but is sufficiently profitable at the same time. Thoughts?
twinkletoesCT -Interesting conversation. Personally I think for a business relationship (and I understand BJJ relationships consist of much more) to remain viable long term, there must be mutual benefit. On Mr. Harris' side this benefit/compensation could be financial or even the "free advertising" provided by affiliates that generates revenue through the sale of marketing materials, apps, seminars, etc. But ultimately he must seek financial gain in some manner or risk not being to provide his affiliates with the time and attention he does now. Long story short - the more financial opportunity presented to Mr. Harris the more opportunity he has to service his affiliates. Hope this made sense lol.Hunter V -The Maestro -twinkletoesCT -
I proudly wear my affiliation with Harris International at every opportunity, because it's not like the "big orgazniations". It's about my relationship with my instructor.
There are no big annual dues (in fact, he got rid of dues entirely and just asked that we take a private lesson per year, at a discount)
There are no required events to host (although he offered me a discount to host seminars, which I jumped at).
There are no required uniforms (though I managed to get my hands on one of his signature uniforms, which is awesome).
There are no binding curricula or policies (although he offered me tremendous insight and assistance with mine). The two rules are: stay clear of drama and bad politics.
And what did I receive for my affiliation? TONS. Amazing training from the most analytical instructor I've ever met in the Martial Arts. Video updates. Online updates. Calls, texts, and emails to check in and see if I needed any help. Discounted private lessons. Free private lessons. Free workshops. (He even flew out to me once to make a special guest appearance at an event I was hosting, without telling anyone or charging me a dime, and he taught a workshop while he was here!) A connection to the greatest network of people I've ever met (this association is FILLED with incredible people). And a relationship with an amazing human being whose commitment and integrity have passed well beyond simply being my instructor, to being like family.
I will continue to proudly represent Roy Harris and his BJJ, JKD, FMA, and Grappling Associations at every opportunity. I cannot say enough good things about him, or his organizations.
I can certainly understand what you're getting out of it, but what is he getting out of it? Why would the Mendes Brothers, Atos, Cobrinha, let a bunch of people use their brand, deliver them free material/help/seminars, and in exchange receive nothing but praise?
The affiliations are using the brand to sell memberships to the public. Why should the brand not be fairly compensated in exchange? So should I be able to use the "McDonalds" brand to sell my burgers, but refuse to adhere to any of their policies/rules/fees; thus compromising their brand with my choices?
BTW, this post is not a knock on you specifically, but rather to keep the discussion going
Complete guess here:
It prob has to do w the association head just wanting people that they can relate to vs accepting anyone that will cut a check (lets face it most big associations in all martial arts don't care about quality control and instead want that check, its just a fact of business). This way the lure of a quick payout isn't there so they can be a LOT more picky on who to let in as you can't just flash cash. When people see that you want them in your group for them vs for a paycheck, they will generally be more loyal and then WANT to bring you out for stuff like seminars and push your merchandise as again you have shown you are not about $ only.
Mind you I am not saying people shouldn't pay some sort of dues and have association people out for something like seminars. Just explaining maybe how Harris runs his.
And on a final note, the branding of most associations honestly is laughable. The general public doesn't know the difference between big or small associations. If anything only the Gracie Academy REALLY for the general public has any sort of true branding power (and that is still sole to do w Royce's accomplishments).
Maestro - great question to keep things moving.
Hunter - I think you're right on track.
I know in Roy Harris' case, he wanted to stand out as an association built on quality relationships and information, not a big fee for a gi patch and a quarterly newsletter. When I joined in 2002, that was what the other orgs were offering. Also, Roy had just been in a truck accident that nearly killed him - he was thrown from his vehicle and woke up in the hospital days later. He felt this was a major wake up call: if he didn't get out there and share with the world, then he might just miss his opportunity.
At the same time, he also decided to shrink his academy, because he no longer knew every student by name. He said he didn't like feeling that it had become impersonal, so he limited new enrollments to only 2 months each year (and later, I think, down to only January). IIRC, he dropped it from something like 150 or 180 students down to about 50, with whom he could invest more of his time.
Incidentally, I see this as representing a certain balancing act between delivering value, and create profit. This seems to be where most associations fall too short...I think perhaps Mr. Harris falls too far in the other direction (he's selfless to the point that I wonder if it's worth the trouble to him). I often wonder what the perfect model would be -- something that delivers top notch quality to its members but is sufficiently profitable at the same time. Thoughts?
It makes sense. To me, this is a business. If you're not here to make money, that's fine. You are free to compromise your brand, time and resources for free. But you certainly shouldn't expect everyone to do so. Some people train for decades, put thousands of hours on the mat to get an opportunity to be financially successful. And to expect those people to lend out their brand for free, or for a cheap price is silly. They should be able to charge whatever the market will bear.
But the way that BJJ affiliations work is rudimentary. They loan out their brand for $200-300/month, which is such a low rate. But they don't deliver any value other than the brand name. You have to be able to deliver some type of financial value for the franchise owner. Help them with marketing, social media, operations, finances, instruction, etc...then you can up the price. Having an "Alliance" banner on your window doesn't mean that you're going to get 100 students right off the bat; especially if the franchise owner knows nothing about ops/mktg/sales/etc.
DGC -Jason Fox BJJ. 2nd degree black belt under Royler.ninja316 - We are a very small association. The head instructor kind of oversees everything from a far and let's us (the head instructors) do things on our own. We kind of get freedom on what and how to teach. But he is the one who gives the green light when it comes to promotions. He comes in and rolls with students and does seminars every other month so we see him quite a bit and and also is available for privates to train.Whats your association?