Your All-Time NBA Starting Five

Pippen is Not a better defender than Jordan. Pippen is an all-time great.

GP is nowhere near the productive and accomplished player Stockton is. Just stop.

thats a murderers row of HOF talent
not included
Russ multiple season 3 x 2
Harden scoring not seen since Jordan
Zion - paint scoring not seen since Shaq
Luka - potential to make a push for best PG

and none of those guys won the MVP this year.

Could Jordan shut down Charles Barkley for an entire half?

I’m starting to see why Pippen is frustrated.

Possibly most underrated player ever.

Nobody filled in the gaps on a team like Scottie.
He wasn’t the individual stat monster… but in terms of value to a team, he is elite.

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The only defensive area where Jordan and Pippen are competitive, is 1-on-1 perimeter defense.
They are both among the best ever in that aspect.

Pippen is a better team/off the ball defender.
And Pippen could guard 1-4 and occasionally 5.
Jordan ain’t doing that.

So if they are close in terms of perimeter defense – but Pippen is better everywhere else – then who is better?

Shooting from the hip, not checking stats, I’d say they are comparable offensively but that Stockton blows Nash out of the water defensively.

Great post.

I have Pippen’s value on par with Garnett’s, however the others on that first list I agree are all more valuable.

On your 2nd list, I’d put Pippen above Paul, above Ray, below Kidd(for sure), but Nash I might put slightly above Pippen. It’s hard b/c Nash wasn’t consistent all his career but in his prime, boy was he good. Nash was Kaitlyn Jenner on defense though. But his quickness, ability to spread the floor and find the open man, drive to the lane, shoot from outside, gives a slight edge over Pippen for me. Really depends on the team though.

I wish we did more threads comparing players and have people chime in who they think is better. I like getting multiple opinions on that.

Do you guys remember when I made that Stockton/Isiah thread? That was really good. My opiniono didn’t change in terms of who I had more value for, however my value for Isiah increased drastically after people chimed in and explained how they formed their opinions. It’s a much closer debate than what I thought prior to make the thread.

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I can’t see putting Nash or Kidd over Pippen.

If I was taking a drink I would have spit it out.

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That was a good thread

You inspired me to make a new one. I tagged you in it. Best duo’s in nba history. I know you can add to the list.

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He had no offense. He was a great defender and glue guy. He is similar to Rodman.

Being a great role player has value in the league.

Again, he had zero value offensively outside of running the break and slashing towards basket.

Pippen a great player and hall of famer and played great in the olympics.Coaches say a lot of things and Im sure Pippen was easy to coach and a given day or week he could be the best player but i would rate a few above him but they blew everyone out .Looking fwd to this years team

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Can we try this out?

  1. Top 5 all time, but no players from same team.

If you pick a player that played for multiple teams, specify the team. Eg Lakers Shaq

-OR-

  1. List your top 5, regardless of players on same team, and then put together a second team that would become the rival to your first team.

Here are mine:

PG - Payton
SG - Jordan
SF - Kawhi Leonard (Raptors)
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Hakeem

  1. Payton, Jordan, Pippen, Duncan, Hakeem

Their rivalry would be against:
Stockton, Kobe, Kawhi, Durant, Wilt

I agree but it all depends on the refs as many have said. Very, very few in today’s league could play in from 80 - 03/04. Back then was about getting an and 1 and today its pull up and shoot asap and no defence. That’s why this conversation is so hard yet fun. Of the big 3 sports, basketball has changed the most in the last 10 years, and not even recognizable from the mj and magic eras. And something no one has brought up, peds. If anyone on the dream team had today’s players performance enhancing drug and recovery methods… no defend. MJ got 6 hous a night and is the best ever. LeBron gets 10-12 plus everything else and still can’t hang in. Mentally not as good but still. Imagine if guys in 80’s and 90’s took better care of themselves…

Yup, I always say this but people’s memories of Stockton and Malone are largely based on the 97 and 98 finals series vs the Bulls. In that series, all the stars on both teams were looking like creaky old men but Stockton had fallen the worst.
But Stockton the early 90s was a different animal.

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Scottie Pippen’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 6.7, 6.0, 5.5, 5.4, 5.3, 5.2

Michael Jordan’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 6.2, 6.1, 5.6, 5.4, 5.4, 5.2

Dennis Rodman’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 7.0, 5.9, 5.4, 5.2, 4.6, 4.4

Kawhi Leonard’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 5.5, 4.7, 4.4, 3.9, 3.4, 3.3

Scottie Pippen’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 2.9, 2.9, 2.6, 2.4, 2.1, 2.0

Michael Jordan’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 3.2, 2.9, 2.9, 2.8, 2.8, 2.7

Dennis Rodman’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 0.9, 0.8, 0.8, 0.8, 0.7, 0.7

Kawhi Leonard’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 2.3, 2.0, 1.8, 1.8, 1.8, 1.8

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How can you say he had zero value offensively?

He played next to the greatest creator of offense ever… and still had a hell of a lot of big offensive games.

He wasn’t Dominique Wilkins in terms of offensive consistency – but when he was on he could hang with anybody, and was just a notch or 2 below the elite scorers.
Considering everything else he did, that’s pretty damn good.

He was more than just a transition scorer.
That’s a disingenuous statement.
Just because he was an elite transition play maker, doesn’t mean he couldn’t beat guys in the half court.

Ask Partick Ewing.

Pippen is one of the greatest defenders ever – one of the best all around players ever – arguably the greatest glue guy ever – and was the #2 guy on arguably the greatest duo in NBA history.
He had plenty of games where he was unstoppable on offense – especially before he hurt his back.
No, he wasn’t 70 or Kobe or GOAT Jordan.
But there are a ton of offensive focus players, who didn’t do half of what Scottie did literally everywhere else on the court.

Put it this way…

On a team with 1 or 2 elite scorers… I would argue there might not be a more valuable lynchpin than Pippen.

He stands out in that aspect… even moreso than Stockton IMO.

That puts Scottie in rare company.

Scorers are a dime a dozen.

If I’m drafting an all-time team, and I miss Jordan or Kobe – I know another big time scorer will come available.

Pippen’s contribution is much harder to duplicate.

Not saying he’s top 10, or even 20, in terms of individual greatness.

But in terms of value to his team… he is unquestionably one of the all time greats.

Shit… even Karl Malone said that Pippen would be the guy he would build a team around.

The players that played with and against him, as well as the coaches, have consistently praised him.

I’ll take their opinions over anonymous fans.

Also… when creating an “all time” team that will likely be full of elite sorcerers – you want a guy like Pippen to “fill in the gaps” and improve team chemistry, while being a defensive specialist.
And nobody does Pippen better than Pippen.

He wouldn’t need to be defended if he were given his due.

Even Jordan said that you can’t talk about his accomplishments without Pippen… because Scottie was the one guy who was right with him for all of it.

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Just for fun:

Hakeem Olajuwon’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 8.7, 8.0, 7.9, 7.8, 6.3, 6.0

Hakeem Olajuwon’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 2.6, 2.2, 2.1, 2.1, 2.0, 1.9

Hakeem Olajuwon’s 6 best seasonal averages for blocks are: 4.6, 4.3, 4.2, 3.9, 3.7, 3.4

Ben Wallace’s 6 best seasons by defensive win shares are: 9.1, 7.9, 7.2, 6.9, 6.7, 6.6

Ben Wallace’s 6 best seasonal averages for steals are: 1.8, 1.8, 1.7, 1.4, 1.4, 1.4

Ben Wallace’s 6 best seasonal averages for blocks are: 3.5, 3.2, 3.0, 2.4, 2.3, 2.2

I agree with everything you wrote. But your argument supports my statement.

He is a great role player NOT a player you build your team around.

And everything you say about him is defensively. So again his role was a defensive stopper and utility player.

And again that has value in the League. Ask Robert Horry.

#staceyaugman

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