Hi. I do a TMA, kendo. In our many discussions of kendo, often we talk about Zen and it's impact on kendo and Japanese martial arts in general. One thing brought up again and again is that TOO MUCH is made of the link between Zen and martial arts. But I found myself asking a question on another board that I thought I would ask you guys, because Zen has impacted not just TMA but all MA, sports, sports psychology, business, motivational psychology, etc. My question is this:
Does any other sport or martial art in the world have a jargon or language that effectively describes the phenomenon of performance the way Zen does? I have heard boxers and wrestlers talk about "heart," meaning guts and endurance, and fencers talk about tempo, and baseball players talk about hitting in near-mystical terms (it's why Yogi Berra is seen by many as an American koan-spouter*), and weight-lifters talk about "the sweet spot," "the zone," and runners talk about the high, et cetera, but does any sports language anywhere in the world describe as effectively what happens in physical action the way Zen does?
Perhaps this explains why Zen or Zen-like trapping is such a powerful set of ideas in sports and MA. Your thoughts?
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*Among Berra's most famous: "How can you think and hit at the same time?"
Yogi Berra is correct. I think this is one key, maybe the most important, to taking physical performance to a higher level of skill.
I think the Japanese codified the concept of performing physical actions while keeping the conscious mind free of any internal chatter. That's why they have better terms for it - heck, they've even got a checklist of sorts as to how to accomplish this.
I don't know how well other cultures explain the concept. Personally, I don't think the West does a good job. Although we have gotten better over the last 20 years or so.
I think the "knuckle draggers" here can handle this thread. Essentially you are describing what is often referred to any sport as the "zone" or being a state where you excel at your sport/MA at a certain time. I think the Buddhists would refer to this as "mind in no mind" that is to say its a point where you are completely instinctual in your game, where no thought is involved at all...hence your Yogi Berra quote.
Sure, I think the zone is as much a part of the grappling arts as anywhere else. Just ask a guy participating in a grappling tournament. I am sure he is focused without thinking.
I am surprised by the similarities between Zen and Stoicism (not a MA) Most of the works on Stoicism were written during the Roman era, and are nice reading, the tend to resemble self help books. there is some deeper philosophy behind it, but most people stick with Aurelius and Epictetus.
Another good book is "Philosophy as a way of life" by Hadot.
Anyway, if you are looking for something like Zen free of the "Asian" esoterica, it's something to inv.estigate
And, answer the question: does any sports culture anywhere have the literature to effectively describe what we're talking about the way Zen does? I've just never heard MA discussed so succinctly as in Zen discourse.
It's an open question, though, whether Zen terminology really is more effective in practical terms.
The problem with Zen as a form of sports or martial arts pyschology is that it can be studied apart from any kind of physical training.
But because the Zen state of mind has been so closely identified with excellence in the martial arts, many people come to think that if they "get" Zen, they'll become martial arts experts instantly, by-passing the years of training that are in fact required for genuine excellence.
This is probably why your kendo instructor de-emphasizes Zen. I'm sure he's dealt with more than a few guys who think they can become master swordsmen by meditating for 20 min. a day and memorizing "The Book of Five Rings."
Western sports pyschology, in contrast, is not really a philosophy. It's a set of techniques and ideas (like "the Zone") that have to be applied in the context of physical training. While it may be more limited as an approach to life as a whole, I think it's far more practical than Zen as a conceptual framework for achieving high-level physical skills.
I remember reading about different types of meditation in Zen practice.
The commonly known type is the sitting type. Pretty boring stuff to me, but it does the job for many people.
Another type of Zen meditation is "walking" type meditation. This is best typified while doing a physical activity or sport, but I think it mainly focuses on individual performance rather than team concepts. Digging a ditch, running a marathon, doing a kata type routine - all types of walking meditation where you can get into the zone.
The relation between Zen and the martial arts supposedly came when Bhodidharma left India to spread Budist practice to China. There were monks in China who wanted to practice Zen Budism, but they were weak and frail. Bhodidharma, being schooled in Indian wrestling and martial arts, taught a codified version of his martial arts to the Chinese. The martial arts were practiced in a codified form to harden the body for the rigors of Zen meditation. It really caught on with the Chinese monks, along with Budism. The religion/philosophy-Zen/martial arts connections remained in China until the Chinese began spreading Budism to places like Japan, where Zen practice is not nearly as old as most people imagine. Kempo (Chinese) was an important introduction in Japanese martial arts development, and likely led to the development of Karate on Okinawa while Budism was being introduced there. Samurai warfare techniques were indigenous to Japan and became jujitsu, kendo and later judo. Not a direct connection between the indigenous Japanese arts and Zen, though many of the MA practitioners are obviously into Zen as a cultural/philosophical thing.
I read a few books on this topic many years ago, and this is just from memory and may not be entirely accurate.
"I'm sure he's dealt with more than a few guys who think they can become master swordsmen by meditating for 20 min. a day and memorizing "The Book of Five Rings." "
To be clear, my instructors haven't really talked about Zen a whole lot, it comes up in conversations with my peers. I am well aware of the whole "I read Musashi and now am Connor MacLeod Zatoichi Ruroni Kenshin" phenomenon.
--"The problem with Zen as a form of sports or martial arts pyschology is that it can be studied apart from any kind of physical training."
Why is this a problem, in your opinion?
And what is "the Zone?" I thought it was just everyday speech, "I'm in the zone," but it sounds like you're referring to a specific curriculum or philosophy.
Well, as I mentioned, the Zen state of mind has been closely identified with excellence in the martial arts. But the fact is, you don't need to train in a sport or martial art to study Zen.
This leads some people to think they can achieve excellence in martial arts simply by reading, meditating, etc. In effect, they see Zen as a kind of shortcut -- a way to achieve the mental state of the expert without actually training in the relevant sport.
As for "the Zone," it started as a slang term among athletes for the state in which one easily, effortlessly performs at one's best, without conscious though -- almost automatically. (You see the similarities to Zen.)
The term since been picked up by sports psychologists, who use it as a way of describing the goal of their discipline. That is, they help athletes achieve this mental state, or "get into the Zone." It's not really a scientific term, but you see it a lot in sports psychology literature.
Oh, I should mention that another Zen-like term you see a lot in sports psychology is "flow."
This term comes from the work of psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, I believe. To be in a state of "flow" is pretty much the same thing as being "in the Zone."
Here's his description of "flow":
"Being completely involved in an activity for its own sake. The ego falls away. Time flies. Every action, movement, and thought follows inevitably from the previous one, like playing jazz. Your whole being is involved, and you're using your skills to the utmost."
Which reads better is one question. Takuan is certainly much more poetic.
Which is more practical for the average learner (particularly a Westerner) is another question. Most serious athletes today use Western sports pyschology to advantage. I've never seen anyone do the same with Zen.
In fact, the people I've known who were most into Zen were also some of the worst martial artists I've ever seen. They were very far from Takuan's "no-mind" -- too high on their self-image as modern samurai, and too unwilling to suffer the damage to this image that would come from hard training and competition.
Of course, this is just one person's limited experience. For all I know, dojos of every kind throughout North America are thick with enlightened Zen warriors.
great point in the last post about being "high on the self image" we all know people like this, and there's bunches of em in MMA/BJJ - all the guys wearing the tapout shirts to school etc.
Alot of people say if they dont see it with their own eyes they cant believe it.
But heres simple way to disprove that-
I thought of this when I was in Zen like meditation-lol you guys will laugh at me for this but if you take the time to really think about it it will perplex you.
I live in the burbs, I have seen millions of squirrels here, but I have once to see any squirrel shit. Im 32yrs old, and never once have I seen squirrel shit. Now since I have never seen it, does that mean squirrels dont exist? I have seen dog shit, cow shit, even rabbit shit. But to this day. never seen squirrel shit.
So thats my take on the Zen stuff, but really, where does all that squirrel shit go?
Where can I read some good contempotary sports psychology? I was under the impression that not much was written down since each coach was so individual. Usually when I read motivational sports stuff it's a few platitudes wrapped around quotes from Yogi, Vince Lombardi and Bobby Knight.
I kept a squirrel for a while after rescuing it from a friend's Schnauzer. His name was Anheuser and he pooped in his bedding, pretty much constantly. The poop looked like wild rice, same as rat poop.