The 36 techniques of jiujitsu that they teach are still better than the karate they teach
I'm not a fan of dragging jiujitsu down 4 pegs in order to bring karate up 2.
EvilGumby - I'm not a fan of dragging jiujitsu down 4 pegs in order to bring karate up 2.Boom!
Bullseye. And that's the argument we are dancing around
Evil gumby for the win
This has got to be hard for you Markus. You spent time in person earning your rank and skills so that you could have a gym. Then people go and take a week of classes and some why online classes and they're able to open a gym too
checkuroil - This has got to be hard for you Markus. You spent time in person earning your rank and skills so that you could have a gym. Then people go and take a week of classes and some why online classes and they're able to open a gym too
why would it be hard on markus ?,he's a big boy ,he opened his academy and doing it. ctc or not anyone can open a gym and say they teach gracie jiu jitsu
I like how a lot of people conveniently overlook the long history of terrible gyms opened by blue and purple belts with no real instructive ability, initiative, or genuine concern for the growth of the art. At one point, that was par for the course.
I trained/dropped-in at quite a few over the years, under a LOT of big name Associations. Some were really good, and some were terrible with meat-heads, and couch-surfing druggie, high-school drop-outs wanting to train for 6 months and then start teaching everyone.
12 -He pays his dues under Torrance and gets to watch the brand get devalued. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, people will lump all Torrance people with this ctc nonsense.checkuroil - This has got to be hard for you Markus. You spent time in person earning your rank and skills so that you could have a gym. Then people go and take a week of classes and some why online classes and they're able to open a gym too
why would it be hard on markus ?,he's a big boy ,he opened his academy and doing it. ctc or not anyone can open a gym and say they teach gracie jiu jitsu
Putting in years under someone only to watch them make horrible business decisions that affect the opinion of your team hurts.
As the Brandon and ari scandals went forward, it hurt me a lot. I saw these out of down fly by night douchebags pull the wool over eddies eyes and then devalue our branding. People would lambast everything 10th planet because Eddie didn't do thorough background checks. He has since learned. He learned a ton from it, in fact. But those growing pains were excruciating
Haha. Hi 12. I'm good. 2 of my students fight on the 23rd. One is defending his title.
HotSteppa - I like how a lot of people conveniently overlook the long history of terrible gyms opened by blue and purple belts with no real instructive ability, initiative, or genuine concern for the growth of the art. At one point, that was par for the course.
I trained/dropped-in at quite a few over the years, under a LOT of big name Associations. Some were really good, and some were terrible with meat-heads, and couch-surfing druggie, high-school drop-outs wanting to train for 6 months and then start teaching everyone.
So, GU turning back the clock to those days and reintroducing the lowest qualified program of teachers to date is forward progress from where things stand now?
Great call gumby
point taken
Bottom line, GU doesn't make people think more highly of Torrance. Instead it makes the general community think less of everything Torrance. By definition that is tearing down the brand.
And as CUO mentions, the Ari scandal made the general community think less of 10th Planet. Only in the last year or so with a few of those guys making an impact on the scene and doing well in tourneys has the brand recovered (in my eyes at least and from what I notice in convos within BJJ groups).
Personally, with all the CTC's and Torrance BS I read I find the notion of training there laughable. If I relocated to the area it wouldn't even make my list of academies to drop in and sample. Now, whether or not I'm waaayy off base for reaching that conclusion, the fact remains that that indicates how far the brand has dropped in my opinion.
My view there is not unique, btw. I've been party to a number of conversations where I've overheard similar sentiments. So the point becomes that the value of the brand has diminished. Having an "official Gracie affiliation" with Torrance is not as valuable of a thing with experienced BJJers as it once was. Newbies who have no clue will always be drawn to the Gracie name as a stamp of legitimacy though. So, the CTC/GU train is best at bringing in money from uneducated or inexperienced consumers.
I don't know how many times I've been put in a headlock, or bearhugged from behind.
Well, since grade school I mean.
Gumby. I understand not wanting to train under a blue belt. I really do. But not to make a pilgrimage to the Mecca of jiujitsu???? You infidel!!!!!
I guess I don't see how it's the Mecca of jiujitsu. Seems more like I'd be berated for a random gi errors, failure to bow or line up at the right time, and be hounded by a cult-like atmosphere of instructors doing their best to try to prove to me that my jiujitsu isn't "pure".
Pans is probably the roving Mecca of jiujitsu in reality. Torrance is now the "tourist trap" of jiujitsu, IMO.
^ if there was a "Mecca" in BJJ it would be Marcelo's since top black belts do actually seem to go on pilgrimage there to learn and be around the Marcelo, a man they all respect.
In contrast, guys like Keenan, Estima, and Lovato aren't going to the GA to train groin strikes and drink grape kool-aid with a goofball like Rener. In fact, GA isn't really relevant to BJJ at all except in the online marketing world. Metamoris was a GA outgrowth but ended in shameful disgrace due to more bad typically bad GA family business decisions. GA can complain about sport rules all they want but even in the submission-only realm their best product is Schaub, a disgrace who ran when he had a big chance to show his GJJ against sport BJJ. At least guys like Renzo and (gasp) Eddie Bravo are producing submission beasts outside of IBJJF and are putting their money where their mouth is. GA just talks shit as if their army of chubby video watching blue belts would wreck shit if it wasn't for all those pesky rules. Affiliating with GA is not like GB, SBGi, Alliance, Checkmat etc. where being a member of the affiliation infers legitimacy of your training and access to high level training partners. Repping GA just means you are a member of the same lineage as a bunch of online blue belt choads who blight their "helio" gi for $200 from hucksters.
EvilGumby - I guess I don't see how it's the Mecca of jiujitsu. Seems more like I'd be berated for a random gi errors, failure to bow or line up at the right time, and be hounded by a cult-like atmosphere of instructors doing their best to try to prove to me that my jiujitsu isn't "pure".
Pans is probably the roving Mecca of jiujitsu in reality. Torrance is now the "tourist trap" of jiujitsu, IMO.
TBH, I nnever felt like that when I visited years ago. I didn't even realized I fugged-up with my ugly blue mizuno eurocomp....nobody said anything and I would have happily used a loaner white if I had known.
No one berated me, OI was complimented on my throws and takedowns and clinch and IIRC kimura which we covered.
I'd have no problem visiting torrance for it's technical level, only thing I have issue with is the marketing side. It's GU isn't even a problem because it is a excellent technical resource. A CTC with legit upper or black belt is likewise a legit option to me.
EvilGumby - Bottom line, GU doesn't make people think more highly of Torrance. Instead it makes the general community think less of everything Torrance. By definition that is tearing down the brand.
And as CUO mentions, the Ari scandal made the general community think less of 10th Planet. Only in the last year or so with a few of those guys making an impact on the scene and doing well in tourneys has the brand recovered (in my eyes at least and from what I notice in convos within BJJ groups).
Personally, with all the CTC's and Torrance BS I read I find the notion of training there laughable. If I relocated to the area it wouldn't even make my list of academies to drop in and sample. Now, whether or not I'm waaayy off base for reaching that conclusion, the fact remains that that indicates how far the brand has dropped in my opinion.
My view there is not unique, btw. I've been party to a number of conversations where I've overheard similar sentiments. So the point becomes that the value of the brand has diminished. Having an "official Gracie affiliation" with Torrance is not as valuable of a thing with experienced BJJers as it once was. Newbies who have no clue will always be drawn to the Gracie name as a stamp of legitimacy though. So, the CTC/GU train is best at bringing in money from uneducated or inexperienced consumers.
lets be honest, 99% of this board has thought less of Torrance for the last 20 yrs.it's not a school that any of you would think about signing up at.and that's before this shit storm.
btw ,I don't see anything that has been posted that I could argue.