....or sambo...my bro is looking to start traiaing. he is a total beginner. thai boxing, jkd, kali, judo, sambo, any sub grappling that is legit.
he is USAF stationed over there and any info would be greatly appreciated
idunno where Osan is. but Korea has a ton of judo (they callit yudo cause they cant say J's).. there are also a good number of english speakers there--he should be able to find something.
hmmm...
"(they callit yudo cause they cant say J's)"
Not sure where you got that from Josh, but that's false. I had a Yudo instructor tell me that Japanese can't say "Yoo" so they changed it to "Ju". But that's probably false also.
yomama.. try looking up YMCA's or ask any TKD schools where you can find yudo.
and, JW... seeing how the koreans are the home of judo that would make sense. =)
yomamafool,
There may very well be something on base. He'll just have to look around.
well, we could argue about where the "ju" chinese character originated (well, the character is from China...), and from there, where it went first...
did the Koreans introduce the character to the Japanese, or did the Japanese appropriate the character into their oral system on their own after they started to use Chinese characters?...was the concept of "gentle" introduced to the Japanese by the Chinese, by the Koreans, or did the Japanese have the concept arise on their own (as it would have independently in many cultures IMO...) and then just use the Chinese character to "write" it...
from there we would know if Japan calls it "ju" because they don't say "yu", or if Korea used "yu" because it is how to "say" "ju" in their language...
having said all of that:
1) judo originated in Japan
2) Japanese does have the "yu" sound...(no yi or ye (anymore), but they got ya, yu, and yo)
Most kanji (Japan) were borrowed from Chinese sources at various times and from various places, and the pronunciation of the kanji were different, just as the pronunciation of Chinese chartacters differs by region even today in China and Taiwan. That's why most kanji have more thsn one pronunciation. The JU in judo (actually it is Juu, a long uu is phonemically distinct in Japanese from a short u). This JUU kanji can also be pronounced as NYUU (example, nyuuwa kare wa nyuuwa na hito desu) "and yawara- (example, karada ga yawara-kai), depending on what the word is. Japanese Juu-Jutsu used to be called YAWARA, by the way. (Koreans call juu-jutsu "yu-sul", "sul" is how they pron9unce the "jutsu" character (which is also pronounced "waza" in Japanese, when it is used as a free-standing noun, and means "technique")
Korean and Japanese intellectuals were all immersed in Chinese writing, so it is likely that the character (pronounced YU in regular Korean) was borrowed multiple times from multiple sources by various people.
However, the word judo (actually, JUU-DOU, because the O in ju-do, is also long [ long o is written ou]) was invented in Japan (obviously).
Note that the fact that a Japanese word is made from Chinese characters does not mean that the word existed in China. It is very possible in many cases that China borrowed word from Japan that were made from Chinerse, but didn't exist in China.
"Note that the fact that a Japanese word is made from Chinese characters does not mean that the word existed in China. It is very possible in many cases that China borrowed word from Japan that were made from Chinerse, but didn't exist in China."
Wow, that's a load of crap. The word "Do" is the word "Dao" in Chinese, and if you know anything about Chinese philosophy you'll know what Dao is, which existed way before feudalistic Japan.
Yama-Arashi-san, perhaps you did not appreciate the difference between a graphic symbol, a morpheme, and a word. DAO in Chinese is not the same as DOU in Japanese (although they are obviously related by the fact that they are written with the same Chinese character?j. Please recall the introductory linguistics course you took in college, or almost any book by John DeFrancis, J. Marshall Unger, Samuel Martin, Roy Andrew Miller, and others. Many people are confused about this subject. It is more complicated. than it seems. Even Japanese and Chinese people like yourself (judging from your impressive knowledge of Chinese philosophy)are often befuddled. Just remember, written symbols are not words and morphemes are sometimes words, bt sometimwes not.
Do (actually dou) is not a word in Japanese. It is a bound morpheme, from which other words are formed, but it doesn't occur independently of other morphemes (like in English, the word guitarist includes the morpheme "ist" which doesn't occur apart from other morphemes, like pianist, dentist. etc). Dou appears in words like:
dougu = tool
suidou = sewer
tetsudou = railroad
douro = road
And many others.
When the character dou (as in Juu-dou) is used as a WORD (rather than bound moerpheme), it is pronounced MICHI. The meanings overlap but are not entirely the same, and the usage differs entirely. As far as I can recall, there is no case where they can be used interchangeably.
My point was that while Japan borrowed the character that is now pronounced DAO in some Chinese languages and dialects (and in Korean), the words (i.e., the combination of characters + the meaning they had) that are now used in Japan that are made from that character were not necessarily borrowed from China.
In some cases, the combination of characters + meaning were constructed in Japan and then borrowed by China. The characters were Chinese, but the combination + meaning (= the WORD) were made in Japan.
This is matter of historical fact and rather obvious don't you think? Imagine that a new technology is introduced from the West to Japan. The Japanese give it a name made up of Chinese characters, as they usually do when importing a new concept or technology (unless they just modify the English (or other) word (as they did with camera--origionally they called cameras shashin-ki (from Chinese characters: shashin = photo, ki = device), but after a while the modified English word (which actually comes from a French word meaning room, if I'm not mistaken), which the pronounce kamera). For example: den-wa (electric + speak = telephone), or den-sha (eletric + wheeled vehicle). These were technologies adopted in Japan during the early years of the Meiji Restoration, well before China saw such things. How would Chinese have word for telephones and railroads if they had never see telephones and railroads?
In Korean, the character is pronounced DO and as in Japanese occurs as a bound morpheme (often in words with Taoist or Confucian meanings). When the native Korean meaning is to be expressed (kil, or gil depending on the phonetic context), it is not written with a Chinese charcater.
Holy crap ,I need to bone up on my high school spanish.
yomamafool,
if you haven't found it yet, there was a pretty decent judo school in songtan (osan's town) that was run by one of suwon judo college's teachers. there is also a that same college located in suwon where there were some really tough dudes--at least when i was stationed there 13 yrs ago.
just don't let them beat you with sticks while you do pushups on a brick bridge over a waterfall.
I think you have your terminologies wrong. Dao or Dou whicher you might refer are not morphemes in the same way that water or mouth can be part of the another complex character. Dao is usually its own word used in a sentence as you so studiously put together.
Whatever semantics you have decided to try I'm not going to engage in. In Chinese Dao means Dao taht's that. The words used in conjunction around may alter the meaning but tje word and meaning of Dao has existed for literally centuries and I highly doubt the Chinese borrowed it from Japan, unless they gave it to Japan and decided to borrow it back. Thanks.
Dao can be an independent word in Chinese. Dou (written with the same kanji) can not be an independent word in Japanese (or Korean).
Of course the kanji (the character ??) originated in China. (Only one or two kanji were not borrowed from China). The point was that words that are made from that character were not necessarily borrowed from China. They might have been in some case (or many cases) but in other cases, the words were made in Japan and borrowed back into China. So the fact that a Japanese word is written with Chinese characters is not evidence that the word itself or the concept that it expresses originated in China.