what of the experts who are later found to charletons - happens all the time - people put forth all sorts of claims to make money - (the hoolywood 48 hour diet, ect.) -
i stand by my dismissal of georges statements about he's a expert cause he testified in court
"Please enlighten me to this man's supposed incompetence--you've whetted my appetite for some controversy...
"
tfs -
leave me your e-mail and i'll let you know something about it - but you must keep it confidential - no matte how bad the blood has gotten between marc and myself - or the trash talking he's leveled at me, i feel so bad about one thing in particular that occured while we were in the PI (i was only privy to it because we shared a room, and no one else knows about this) - i promised to to say anything about it - just dont repeat it
however i will tell you it took marc 10 years to become a 1st level instructor - it takes everyone else 4-5 years
"People "not in the know" probably don't even know what escrima is, let alone assuming that some modern fellow "invented" it. "
thought you would follow me on this one - not litterally -
the people not in the know - are those who have never trained with him and/or anyone who's any good - through some marketing he set himself up as some sort of master (eric knauss is the man who does all the teaching and demoing on the tapes) - funny when you see what the fight sequences on the tapes - marc commentary is the guy in the yellow shirt is getting his ass kicked by the guy in the grey shirt - however knowing these people very well - i know the guy getting his ass kicked is marc - the kicker is eric
invented escrima - not litteral either - but they think marc is the best ever - bar none - go on the escrima digest - people who have never even seen marc swing a stick talk about him like he shits gold bars
cont
tfs --
"There you go again--always bringing up these "hints" as to why such-and-such an instructor supposedly sucks. "
again here i wasnt talking about MA's in particular - but some instructors come to mind - however - i'm friends with them and dont want to talk bad on the net about them - i'll give one hint about one instructor - there is a very fameous training center - this person is very high up on the instructor list - i've knife sparred against him - he has some more knowledge then i do - but not tons more - he even IMO - won more exchanges then i did - however there are alot of people far more skillful and knowledgable around and would eat me up with a blade - yet this person appears in all kinds a mags - i think he even has his own column - yet he's far from a expert - cause i concider myself far from the masters i concider experts - and this guy isnt that much better than i am (at least when i was training all the time)
Offer us an alternative then--give us an instructor who meets with your approval -
as far as knowing the right stuff for knife defense -
ron balciki, bill mcgrath, tom bisio, irwin viarta (sp?), not 100% sure about sled dog, but i was guess yes, chris sayoc and some of his top guy's, not sure a tony sumara (baha la na) - i've only done a few stick seminars with him and mano leo, omar hakim, - there are other's - but that's a good start
tdk -
"Mike's opinions of Hock aren't based off of any "marketing" Hock might have done. Unlike you, he happens to know the man and what he (Hock) has accomplished."
while that may be true - his arguements here dont hold water w/me - i've covered the entire "testifing" argument - and again because he has disarmed someone doesnt make him a expert - a santa monica cop i know w/little training disarmed someone holding a knife - that doesnt mean he's a expert - for that matter - the guy was only holding it - not attacking - i was at the pistol range doing my first ipsa race - i pulled my weapon and was pointing it down (in a safe place) - the range master took the gun out of my hand (disarming me) - becuase i violated a saftey rule (breaking 180) - there are alot of circumstances to taking a gun off someone - i'd like to see him take a gun from my hand while i'm pointing it at him point blank before i get off a shot or 10.
"This statement shows how little you know about firearms. Prior to posting I went out and tried to put several pistols (Glock 19, S&W 908, S&W 4046) out of battery by pressing my head into the barrel. Guess what? They all go out of battery once pressure is placed on the end of either the slide or the barrel (if it extends beyond the slide like on a G19). This was done with out the "statue pressure" that you state would be needed"
well my H&K usp 45, my kimber cdp pro, and the springfield loaded - i tried didnt unless i was pressing the gun into my head - creating opposite force into my head - if i just place the gun to my head and tilt - they [dry] fire. glocks are notoriously sloppy (a lot of play) - so i'm suprised it wont fire - i'll test one and get back to you
cont
" guess TKD teachers who show a 'X' block to defend against knife attacks got it right then "
the sarcasim (joke) was directed at TFS and not at TDK teachers - he seems to have stated that less than optimum techs have their place when going against less then optimum attackers - it's my contention that even thogh they might work - it's far better to train and use only the best possible techs - they will work against any skill level, as opposed to lessor tech only working on lessor agressors - when the skill level is unknown - i feel it better to err on the side of conservitism - thinking that this person is high trained - if i get it wrong - i still win - if i think he's not skilled, and i use some half assed tech - and i'm wrong - i lose
i wanted to answer previous posts - but i've been at the key board 3 hours now - hopefully i'll ge ta chance to responed before i have to defend my statements against a new salvo
sreiter, thanks for you response, you have the experience and I appreciate your cander.
sreiter,Sorry it took a while to get back to you.I think that what we have at this point is a combination of misunderstandings and a possible difference of opinion. However, unless I've totally forgotten how English grammar works, it does appear that you contradicted yourself at least once...You first declared:first off on the books like confessions of a knife fighter and secert priso knife fighting techniques ect. - they'll get you killed - even articles on knife fighting/defense in knife mags are total bullshit.And then you suddenly pulled a 180, and said: 2)even if they [prisoners] arent studing a specific system - years of doing what they do - knowing what works - they've developed their own EFFECTIVE system of martial arts (knife fighting)Did I simply miss something? If so, please clue this poor bastard (ie., me) in... In any case, I shall list my opinions on the issues at hand, in an attempt to clear up some of the apparent confusion and/or misunderstanding:1. I believe that training in the "best possible techniques" should be priority for any martial artist.2. The so-called "less than optimum" techniques may be termed as such when it comes to using them against pros, but for using them against other folks--streetfighters, psychos, muggers, whatever--I don't think that all such techniques are necessarily "less than optimum" (this is one difference of opinion). The psycho with the kitchen knife (or whatever) may or may not be simplistic in his attacks, but what is not to be overlooked is the fact that he may also be extremely erratic and unpredictable--suddenly you're faced with someone who is not moving, behaving or fighting like the guys at the school, and that can really through off your defensive plan. In such a case, techniques that are simplistic or even downright crude may be better, when one considers factors like adrenaline rush, etc. 3. Because of the above, I'm personally an advocate of training for dealing with the widest possible variety of potential attackers, and that is where training in both the "best possible techniques" and the so-called "less than optimal techniques" comes into play (BTW, I'm certainly not recommending a friggin' TKD "x" block to anybody!). Your belief that the "best possible techniques" will work against "any skill level" may not always be the case.4. Think of something like this--in a theoretical encounter between two knife fighters (each man with a single blade), I would personally assume an en guard stance with my blade side forward. Leading with the free hand would, IMHO, be pretty stupid, unless you had a leather jacket or something similar wrapped around your arm to use as a shield (and some styles do feature this). One would therefore assume that it would be largely pointless to train in fighting with the free hand forward. However, what if you are faced with an unarmed, but clearly drugged-up or otherwise psychotic individual who is still out to obviously try to do you some harm? Assuming a free hand forward stance helps to protect you from being disarmed, and your free hand can act as a "cushion", to keep the assailant away. If he tries to close, you can hold him off with your free hand while slicing or puncturing him with your knife. In such a scenario, the free hand side forward stance suddenly makes more sense. Having some knowledge of the dynamics of it, therefore, can be a potential benefit.[continued below]
[continued from above]
5. And what about all of the unarmed vs. knife defenses from various arts? Clearly, some are better than others, but the fact remains that, if you were forced to execute such an action in a real fight, the possibility of success is reduced if the opponent is skilled, since he knows what kind of defenses to expect, and he has a presumably formidable arsenal of attacks to choose from anyway. Does this mean that one shouldn't train in unarmed vs. knife techniques? Of course not--they can still possibly prove to be life savers, regardless of who the attacker is--they are basically better than nothing (and obviously, any unarmed vs. weapon scenario is concerned with perparing someone for a very desperate situation).
That's bacically how I feel. One thing I would like to know is this--could you possibly offer a certain knife technique from Hock that you don't agree with? I'm asking this because it has been one of the main subjects of debate on this thread, and yet, no specific knife techniques of Hock's were ever discussed (did I miss it?). The only one brought up was the pistol disarm, and, as I already stated, I know extremely little about modern firearms.
Hopefully the above will clear things up a bit.
Much Obliged,
TFS
P.S. As you know, I am a mere student of FMA, whereas you are an instructor--so while we have disagreed on this thread, please know that I still respect your opinions (though I'm not too crazy about how you word things sometimes). However, until you show me something from Hock that looks really bad (knife-wise), I'm still gonna consult his material.
As far as the Marc Denny stuff, if it concerns things where you feel you must tell me in private, I'd really rather not even know about them. Thanks for the offer, though.
SReiter says...
"i've seen tons of "so called, self professed" experts that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground - marc denny of DB "fame" - is a prime example... i could go on - but there's no reason..."
Then he goes on... and on.. and on about Marc.
Then SReiter says, "leave me your e-mail and i'll let you know something about it - but you must keep it confidential... i promised to to say anything about it"
So you promised never to tell anyone, and you are about to share it with someone you met briefly over the internet. Remind me not to share my deepest darkest secrets with you.
No offense... I am interested in your opinion, but if you don't have anything good to say about a person, please don't say anything (well... you can say "Nice gi").
Kevin
tfs -
yea i think there is a lot of misunderstanding - after your explanations i agree with alot of what you said -
ok - to respond
"And then you suddenly pulled a 180, and said:.."
i was refer to specific books i've read - with titles like "how to survive prison knife fights (i called my friend who owns the books for the exact name but couldnt reach him - he, btw, is a instuctor under tom bisio, in many respects the greatest student of leo gaje, bill mcgrath, and leo himself) - anyway these books were total bullshit - just titles to intice you to buy them - - that doesnt take away from the fact that there are some serious knife fighter in prison, but i dont think they're writing books - (just to digress there's a whole prison fighting system the 88's or someshit - god i know bits and pieces of so much shit - but never bother to bookmark shit after i read about - anyway - it's supposed to be a black thing - that if your white you cant pull it off cause you gotta have a certain style or something - been around for ever - supposed to be the shit - anyway looks like silat to me - but there ws a guy was was supposed to write about it - but it never happened - GOD SOMEONE PLEASE INJECT FACTS )
"but what is not to be overlooked is the fact that he may also be extremely erratic and unpredictable--suddenly you're faced with someone who is not moving, behaving or fighting like the guys at the school, and that can really through off your defensive plan."
i agree with the statement - i've always said the tough bjj guy's are the guys fresh off the street how fight erractic - however were gonna have to agree to disagree on training method - i think it's valid to actually have some erratic dude come at you in your training - even get sloppy drunk (you or him or both) and train - but with proper training, you timimg, and reflexes with allow you react to any situation - as far as the less the best tech - what ever works is the best - but i dont see ANY tech that is not designed to be circumstantial - a guy does this - you do that - by the way i advocate the best tech you can use is running away if possible - again - train under wide circumstances - but train with the best techs you can - many FMA techs actually were developed in prison fights - in the PI- prisoners tape blades to their handfor fear of being disarmed - (the gospel according to dan - LOL)
cont
tfs -
there are actually systems, as well as techs (sub systems who fight free hand forward) and they are quite effective - i've even seen hold your free hand forward (liek boxing weak hand) - you knife (in various grips - as i've seen several different variations in diff systems) - you kife hand is litterally on top of your head - you look like a unicorn - actually your hand is almost behind your hand - and this shit works - (i was tring it while sparring with the guy i was talking about before) - and did so-so - however i've seen lynn tompson, owner of cold steel use it very effectively - leo gaje also has this as part of his advanced studies - he claims not ot have shown it to the group he first taught (mcgrath, bisio, ect.ect) - and several others
Kevin -
"So you promised never to tell anyone, and you are about to share it with someone you met briefly over the internet. Remind me not to share my deepest darkest secrets with you."
well if you do - dont go around stabbing me in the back and talking shit about me(like marc did), or i'll use everything, including your secret to get back at you
first off marc has done tons of shit to me - and talked tons of shit about me - it's only cause people like me more than him, that i get the reports of what he sayes and does. -
secondly - you know.. i was just write how even though he did horrible shit to me (like getting me kicked out of the I academy) - that i still have some compassion in my heart - the only reason i promised was because it was so bad it brought a tear to his eye -
but now i'm thinking about all the back door shit he did to me - fuck him - i'll tell you -
dont read on if you dont want to know -
at the very end of the camp leo gaje gave everyone a signed poster of all the filipino flags - and wrote something personal to everyone - mine was - steve your laughter is more dangerous than the sword -
marcs' was "you need much improvement" - it fucking crushed him - he tore it up immediately - i tried to console him and tell him - maybe leo's english is just bqd and he meant something else - he said - there's nothing else it could mean -
just remembered - the prison fighting system is also called jail house rock - 88's or whatever it is refers to the number of moves the system has
52 -
here a so so link
http://www.malandros-touro.com/generic.html?pid=2
stickgrappler has a great link
http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/52.html
Ha... that was the terrible secret... you need much improvement!?!?!
well -
concidering it made him cry - and concidering the fact that here he is a world famous expert - having a grand master tell you that you suck is pretty bad - totally ruins your street cred -especially since DB is founded in pekiti- funny thing is he wouldnt spar with anyone either - there were some real good fighters there - everyone had a camera - he kept coming up with a "i'm hurt" excuse - yet he was rolling around do bjj - just tring to keep the illusion..errr mystic up -
even in the PI these guys who would tear him apart kept asking me "is he really that good...." ect -
actually afraid of him because of his rep - until they saw what he was about
sreiter,
I'm glad we were able to alleviate some of the confusion--I'll post more on this later (gotta get to work).
TFS