Just curious to see if anyone here incorporates olympic lifts into their traininng?
if so do you feel it has helped your judo in anyway? I keep reading that it will add explosive power which would seem to cross over nicely.
I just joined a new gym and i get some personal training for free so i am going to have a trainer there show me how to do them and see if it helps me out..
I do cleans in my weight training program. I think it does help me but only to a certian degree. Becareful how some personal trainers tell you how to do cleans. I was a trainer for a year at a club and me and one other trainer were the only ones that knew how to do them correctly out of a staff of twenty some. The other trainers would have their clients doing some stupid stuff.
ask Wayland!
ttt for wayland
someone is calling me?
what particular are you asking regarding how lifting helps, but that i mean what exercises or muscle groups are you trying to work? what is your purpose for lifting with judo? let me know and i will try and answer your question...
Thanks Wayland.
I am looking to build explosive power..
you know how some people have a great snap or initial pull when they are fighting... well i kinda lack that.. and i can tell and it is pretty noticeable when i fight.. i normally have to be very sneaky or use good timing to get in for my throws and normally use twisting and turning motions to help off balance my oppononent..
i would like to have more strength in my initial quick pull to off balance.. it is kinda hard to explain but people who i am stronger than .. say in matwork or even rows or bench press have more snapping power.. i am sure my terminology is way off here but im trying..
i am hoping that the o lifts will help train my muscles to generate lots of force very quickly to off balance my opponent and allow me to get in better for throws...
any help you can give would be great...
okay, well, power=force X time, so you must be able to produce a large amount of force in a brief period of time for power..traditionally, power routines include high pulls, cleans and snatches (not of the female persuasion) and any routine using these would help you with power development...however, you can also develop explosive power using body weight exercises like bunny hops, jumping over repeatedly a chair or bench, or any kind of what they call "eccentric loading", basically anything that LENGTHENS the muscle..and allows you to quickly contract the muscle back to its orginally shape...
i would suggest using a routine that uses: 1) large muscle groups 2) incorporates power exercises 3) focuses on the speed of contraction, rather than the load or weight..
what are these exercises? cleans; high pulls; snatches; squats; upright and bent rows; and even bench or millitary shoulder press...always supplement with body weight exercises as in chin ups/dips and the like..do this 2X per week for only a 2 month period and then focus on something else...always allow 3 days rest min in between workouts..
note, this is very tiring and it would be best to train with someone at first...
does this help you ?
a MAJOR footnote to this is to use power training in your judo practice...to make sure to use exercises or drills incorporating power routines..like uchikomi against a resisting partner, pull ups and body weight exercises...whatever you do in the weight room, MUST be transferable on the mat or it is useless to judo
I cant thank you enough.. that was some great info..
i will start and give it my best.. i hope it transfers over well to the matt..
thanks again!!!!
Wayland,
Good post.
One thing though, Power = force x distance/time
or Force x velocity (since Distance/time = velocity)
ah, thanks m.g., you should proof read my posts more often!
27CF-
We do some of the olympic lifting in our training program(Hang cleans, snatch, high pull, squat, dead lift, push press etc), but typically don't do the full clean and jerk or olympic snatch since our focus is on weight training for judo, not become olympic lifters.
You need to find somebody locally that can teach you the basics though, because there is a lot of technique involved and it would be easy to get hurt otherwise. You aren't just doing a curl now, you're moving weight and catching it. With that said, it's a great way to supplement your lifting routine and add variety.
Where are you located?
Ron
Wayland,
You're welcome. I'll pass on the editor offer. Thanks for the suggest though.
I would say:
1. By all means try using modified Olympic lifts such as the power clean and power snatch and see if they help. There is however no clear and easy relationship between being "explosive" in these movements and being explosive in performing techniques on the mat. I have known a number of decent Olympic lifters who were not particularly explosive in the mat.Some swear by them however so they are worth a try.
2. Strength is a component of power so there is no harm in being stronger.
3. If working on power or rate of force development then you need to consider what the appropriate weight/ rep set up should be as you are not working the muscles in a conventional manner. If working heavier weight the intention to move the weight seems to be important. Perhaps Wayland can address this further.
4. Investigate plyometrics and/or "complex" training
twinning a lift with an explosive movement. I cannot say that this will help you but it is just a suggested avenue to explore.
The relationship between clean and snatch and enhancing power is that in order to successfully clean and snatch the weight, you must make the weight move. Not through brute strength, but through accelerating the weight in a linear motion (i.e. explosive energy). In order to do this you have to develop "explosive" muscular movements AND movements in which several muscle groups work in synch.
Personally, I believe that genetics plays a huge role in whether somebody is very "explosive" in their movements(sprinters vs long distance runners).
Plyometrics are a good training tool, but they really beat you up, so you need to add additional recovery time, and again find somebody who can teach you the proper techniques.
Ron.
Wayland thanks for suggesting bodyweight exercises.. i started thinking about that while i am doing pushups pullups and bw squats.. i can already see how that will help down the road..
regardless of the direct effect the training might have i think if i focus on it more and more it will carry over into my judo..
and for those that suggested getting a qualified trainer that is the only way i would ever practice these and i have at least 2 in my gym who should be able to show me and there is another "friend of a friend" who already volunteered to show me so that basis should be covered...
Thanks again for the help..
RonB@SSD,
I agree with you concerning accelerating the weight in order to develop explosive power.
I also agree to a degree about Plyometrics. The one thing about Plyometrics, that both Mel Siff and Yuri Vershokansky stated in their book supertraining, it is very misunderstood and abused in the the west (United States, Western European countries).
Some of the exercise in the West we call Plyometric aren't really plyometric and some of them actually submaximal plyometrics. Furthermore Plyometric training often isn't needed for some sports.
In the United States many people are injury because alot of coaches really don't have a good understanding as to how plyometric physiological work, how to develop and plyometric training plan, when the best time to do plyometrics.
As far as genetics and explosive power is concerned. I tend to think genetics don't play that big of a role. Some people simply place a greater stimulus upon themselves where "explosiveness" is developed to higher degrees. The sport of sprinting in and of itself places a greater stimulus to developing "explosiveness" then long distance running. To often genetics is used as and excuse for what people lack certain things. Genetics may play a role in the very elite levels but not as to why a person is or isn't explosive in general. Most people aren't explosive because they don't put enough of a stimulus upon themselves to develop explosiveness.
m.g.:
Thanks for the info. I will definitely defer to you in regards to the physiology of plyometrics.
In regards to the genetics. What I was saying, and I probably should have been more clear, is that people tend to favor a particular activity based on their genetic build. In other words, a sprinter sprints, because that is naturally what they are best at. Sure, they could develop as a long distance runner, just the same as a long distance runner could develop as a sprinter. Height, joint leverage, etc all come into somebodies genetic build which will affect their natural ability to perform an activity.
I fully agree that a person can enhance any type of performance by training it. That's why judo is so great. Personally, I am not a naturally explosive person. So it takes me a lot longer to build the muscular reflexes for explosiveness than others. Can I do it? Yes. Is it harder for me to build explosive power than limit strength? yes.
RB
I tend to agree with RB's original proposition about genetics and explosiveness.
By saying that a long distance runner could develop as a sprinter you are suggesting a lot more than happens in practice. Of course you can make the long distance runner faster to a limited degree but the transformation into a competive sprinter if you are not naturally fast is a tall order. In my experience
taking a mature athlete who has done some running you are looking at about a 10-15% speed improvment which while may be significant is not enough to move you up a level if you are only mediocre-speed wise- to begin with.
I think that sprinting is a good example when discussing "explosivenenss" because it is a measurable activity. People will say that I did this or that exercise or routine and am so much more "explosive" but in sprinting you can actually measure the alleged improvement. Unfortunately and contrary to m.g's belief the training stimulus does not explain the variations in speed you encounter in athletes and will not overcome a natural or "genetic" advantage.
It is comforting to belive that we are all equal and can achieve as much as the next person through dedication and application but I am afraid that in the real world things are rather different.
Peterfield,
I still disagree about the level in which genetics plays in explosiveness.
I'm not saying genetics doesn't play a role. We are what we are physically because of genetics. So genetics is going to play some type of role in the activities we do because the physcial activities are done with the body that was create from genes we inherited from our parents.
But the thing about what we're physically capable of doing is this, we not an island to ourselves. That is, everything we do, particularly physically, isn't done isolation. All our physical activities have an affect and influence on each other. The very type of work AND play we do has an affect on the our physical capabilites.
If our work and play centered around doing things like long distance running or endurance like activities then we'll be more naturally inclined to do those types of sporting activities.
If our work and play centers around doing things encourage or require quick movements, explosiveness, coordination then we'll be more incline to do sporting activities that have such type things.
If our work and play doesn't center around either of those things then it going to be hard for us to do any physical activity that requires either of those things.
One thing I learn about the human body from my exercise physiology classes is the human body adapts to the stress you place on it. And it doesn't take special training to cause this adaptation. As long as the body itself is exposed to stimulus that overloads the body adaptation will occur. If this stimulus happens to be work or play than adaptation will still occur.
If a person spends a great deal of their life adapting to a certain stimulus whether it is work or play then it shouldn't be too much for them to manifest the adaptation in a sport or activity that generally does or require the same thing.
Most people or athletes who are very good at a particular sport or activity have been doing the very thing which makes them good at that sport for a long time, aside from special training.
I have yet to hear of an athlete whether long distance endurance or explosive type who hasn't done some type of activity that directly or indirectly related to very quality that is needed in the sport of choice.
What we think is "genetic" may simply be years of adaptation to stimulus that happen to be work or play instead of special training.
I think it is very hard for a person who physiologically adapted to a specific condition ( whether long distance endurance or explosiveness) to all sudden pickup other physical condition traits (whether long distance or explosiveness) regardless of how specialized the training.
Another thing I learn from my exercise physiology class is can person can't have both high explosiveness and high long distance endurance at the same time because both conditions cancel each other out. A long distance endurance type can be more explosive and a explosive person can have more long distance endurance BUT neither one will ever reach the same degree as the one main condition the athlete or individual is known for.
So trying to take a person who is a long distance runner and make his explosiveness as high as his endurance capabilities or vice versa is impossible. Not because of "genetic" BUT because the body only adapts one condition at a time. This is because the body is specific to its adaptation. The more the long distance endurance athlete works on their explosiveness the more their long distance endurance capability will diminish. Same for the explosive athlete who does the same with endurance training.
Alot of people confuse this with "genetics" when it simply is specificity of adaptation.
Note: I'm not talking about an athlete who has adapted to one condition and desires to get alittle more of the other condition BUT rather of individuals who try to be equal in both or who try to competely switch from one condition to the other.