Do you begin to just have noooooooooooo problem from athletic 6 month or so white belts? :)
I have been training for about 13 years. I am a brown belt under Jamel McCurry. I am 6'2" and 225.
My game is top based with an emphasis on "crushing", and if it takes me 10 minutes in side mount on anyone to get them to give me stuff, I take it.
Now, Be kind cause I am 36 years old and going through Chemo, so I have no cardio and strength. lol
But it seems, that even though I may never be in trouble of being submitted or anything, that these 18 or 20 year olds who've only been training for 6 months are STILL tough to tap sometimes. You can dominate them, and go from sub to sub, but it seems they can still explode out to their knees, hold on for dear life to kimura defenses, etc etc etc... and you can just put them back and try again. :)
When do you finally just never have to work to tap these guys? :)
McLeod - Do you begin to just have noooooooooooo problem from athletic 6 month or so white belts? :)
I have been training for about 13 years. I am a brown belt under Jamel McCurry. I am 6'2" and 225.
My game is top based with an emphasis on "crushing", and if it takes me 10 minutes in side mount on anyone to get them to give me stuff, I take it.
Now, Be kind cause I am 36 years old and going through Chemo, so I have no cardio and strength. lol
But it seems, that even though I may never be in trouble of being submitted or anything, that these 18 or 20 year olds who've only been training for 6 months are STILL tough to tap sometimes. You can dominate them, and go from sub to sub, but it seems they can still explode out to their knees, hold on for dear life to kimura defenses, etc etc etc... and you can just put them back and try again. :)
When do you finally just never have to work to tap these guys? :)
Well yeah in your case I think it's a special case buddy and good luck by the way.
I'm only purple but I find I catch more stuff just by taking what they are giving to me...going with the flow so to speak. Sometimes that means I don't catch anything and just get sweeps but sometimes it means I catch tons.
I'm sure in your 13 years of training you've learned a set up or two that you like to use regularly.
How's your transitions while on top.
Sounds like you have to do something to create a better opportunity for you.
BTW around Purple is when I made the jump to not having problem with athletic begginers, but my game is movement based and I'm 6'2" 200lbs, so that helps lots.
armbar from their back w/ a bow and arrow choke combo... that combination always pays off for me.
clock choke. i don't give a shit who they are. if you get that grip and do EXACTLY as mr. sperry says, you will clock choke the f out of them.
from mount, s-mount armbar to a classic cross choke combination for the win. and when you are gripping for the choke, shake the shit out of them before settling in.
chemo though, man, i think you deserve a pass.
McLeod - ... and if it takes me 10 minutes in side mount on anyone to get them to give me stuff, I take it.
Sorry a bit off-topic but I'm realizing I need to adopt this method of sparring more and more. I used to think going for a sub even if I know I'm taking a risk would be better than that, but really MAKING SURE you have it before committing is the better way.
Anyhow, back on topic, I think against athletic new guys, the opposite will greatly increase your sub percentage. New guys get their ego tapped out of them much faster than if you crushed it out of them. Whenever there is a spaz or "tough guy" I don't care about positional dominance, just sub after sub after sub. Practice good position against someone who can make things happen from those positions, white belts can't take advantage of that so play bottom and launch sub after sub. Lots of subs from full guard and mount, I don't play loose or play open guard stuff, lots of armbars and triangles, and don't forget the yawn after each tap to rub it in!! ;)
good luck man and I hope you get well soon.
Hmmm... It's a pretty subjective and individual question, I think. An older guy or one who's physically small(er), say Royler's size, is always going to have trouble with younger, athletic, physically superior guys. It's just the way it is and it's why knowledge/skill is so important. Because somewhere a long the way you reach that point of diminishing returns where just holding your own is a 'win' regardless of your belt/experience.
In your situation it sounds like you're getting the best results possible, so what more can you ask for without teetering to far into self-delusion?
Having said that, anytime someone asks me these kinds of questions or I reflect on my own experiences(ie: why am I not doing as well as I expected to?), I immediately start looking at how complete their game is and the amount of time that's dedicated to escapes, sweeps, and scrambles. How often are you drilling/sparring the shit out of escapes/sweeps from bad positions and against the young/big guys giving you a hard time? How often do you drill techniques when you're dead tired?
I ask because it seems like everytime people have trouble(myself included) is because they've been lazy(for however long) with the basics and keeping their game concurrent with their age(ie: older/slower/weaker = your top game gets less attention and your bottom game, especially escapes/sweeps, becomes your new obession).
My $.02
I'm 5'4" and around 165 lbs. I've been training for about 9-10 years, and am a purple belt.
Depending on the size and athletism of the white belt, they can still give me a tough time, or even tap me out.
I don't care anymore- it's all part of learning.
However, I do get a special satisfaction knowing that 99% of them will quit before they get to my age.
Whenever a young buck crimps my smooth style I always brush up my technique at sub 101. I find doing this and listening to the solid advice of Senseo Bolden allows me to tackle anyone 2 stripes white and under.
I noticed I stopped having as much trouble with athletic white belts when I just let them spaz and get tired. Then I just tap the living fuck out of them. Closed guard, sweep straight to mount, choke and repeat. Oh yeah, and I'm a 3 year blue belt.
I don't have problems with anyone, ever.
I think you need to demote yourself back to 3stripe white.
Thanks for all the comments guys. I am not over analyzing this, and am in no way too concerned with it (amazing what having cancer does to your perspective. lol). Just was kinda curious how everyone felt.
I do have some side effects from my current treatment that cause some trouble: I can get winded REAL quick if I'm not dictating the pace. I can get muscle fatigue pretty quick if I'm suing too much power and grip, etc. I have no vestibular system left (due to brain surgery in March and Meniere's disease), so I had to start fresh with keeping base again to some extent. In other ways, the muscle memory of many of the moves allow me to flow without the vertigo effecting me too much.
That sounds like I'm whining, so I thought about deleting it. But I'll leave it for now.
I do have a lot of like 6 month whites who don't give me any problem because my crushing game just happens to work perfectly on them, other people will give me a headache with their abiluty to fight out of stuff. I'm never in trouble (aside from gassing myself out), and I generally can just hit a sweep to get back on top. But it annoys me that some of the great black belts I roll with seem to not even be trying with me, and I'm a brown, you know? Then I have to attempt move after move on some guys. Lol
I do get lazy with working some reversals and sweeps and bottom guard stuff as someone posted on here. I readily admit that. I need to work more of that stuff so I feel a bit more comfortable going for something that will lose the position if I miss it. I feel a bit nervous about it now because I'll have to work much harder to sweep and get back on top or sub from the bottom than my usual game, and I can get tired pretty quick right now. Make sense?
Just kinda babbling about it now. feel free to continue to give your .02 on it.
Oh and I had a baby two weeks ago for the first time. So I don't sleep. :)
Was actually going to say something but then I remembered you have been training 13 years.
I'm a purple belt. Is it ok if I ask you some questions on beating the guys who have been training that long?
i can try to help out holdyerground.
ask away. if i dont see any questions, ill just give ya some ideas of what gives/gave me problems.
Dude. All I have to say is fuck you are awesome!! that is a freakin inspirational story if I have ever heard one. You should Wright a book... "Rolling under duress" or something... About your experiences...id buy it!
That being said as a newly promoted purple training for three years...( just so you can add the proper amount of salt lol) I think that those six month athletic, perhaps wrestling background guys could always pose a problem for everyone. I have a similar style to yours... My "A" game consists of grinding past guard into a crushing side control or mount. I then begin if they give me nothing to distribute my 205 lbs. In the manner designed to make them super uncomfortable where they are. In side mount I love to feel all my weight through a rib on their head. In manners like this I much reduce the time it takes those guys you refer to to give me a sub.
Keep going strong brother. Im rooting you and yours!!
Jessy, Thank you for the kind words. It helps to hear stuff like that to keep foghting. :) Having a new baby boy that I want to be the first to win both an NCAA championship and the Mundials helps as well. :)
BTW: Three year purple?? You suck. :) I was just getting my blue at 3 years. lol
As for HoldYerGround, I'll just give ya a general idea of how to handle guys that have been training a long time. I want you to think of Shaq. He was a beast that was widly known, paid lots of money and his game was feared. But he sucks at the free throw line. Because for him to be successful, he never had to perfect that aspect. It's sometimes similiar with guys who have been training a long time. They have gotten to where they are by imposing their game. There are some aspects that 10 years ago were worked on that have fallen by the wayside because it hardly ever comes up. If you force that person into that aspect of the game, suddenly they are taken back YEARS in skill. Make sense? Also, there is usually a pace that people work at, and changing that pace, usually in the beginning at a detriment of your own which means you have to have good defense and cardio, will cause them to have holes that may not have been there at a faster or slower pace.
Those two things seem to help me a bit. Make any sense?
I understand your pain bro!
Unfortunately as we age, life tends to interfere with our jiu-jitsu.
Keep up the fight!
McLeod: Like you I've also been doing this for 13 years (with my own serious health problem, as you know) and i don't know man, some people are just tough to tap sometimes... and its not only size related.
I've found for myself that the pressure of always tapping a lower rank with ease and quickly is kind of a hinderance mentally. Personally, i've resigned to just do what you do, pressure and constant attack until i get the tap. Time be damned.
There are just some freaks out there btw.
McLeod,
You're going through chemo, man. The fact that you are out there rolling with these guys is already the equivalent of tapping out Roger Gracie, imo. Most people, myself included, would be parked in front of a tv with a stack of DVDs and video games.
Now, if you were having "trouble" finishing these guys before you had any symptoms and treatment to deal with, then I would look at the course of your training and see if you've always valued control and position over submission. For me, I always struggled with cardio so I specifically developed a game that was more about getting to the top, passing, and then locking the person up until they made a mistake and I could submit them, or until time ran out. It wasnt until I was a black belt that I started to work on really finishing the person at the very first opportunity.
To do so, I worked on a few submissions that I was already decent at, and I tightened them up as much as possible. I now have three that I feel I can catch on just about every person I roll with if I can get to the necessary position to initiate.
Hey! Please send me a PM here or an email at andrehanderson@hotmail.com
Thanks!
Andreh
I'm just guessing, but perhaps the amount of time you've been doing BJJ skews your perspective? Thirteen years ago, a purple or brown belt was viewed almost as a step below a god on the mats. If you had seen a brown belt then, you would expect them to be able to tap white/blues at will without any problems.
So maybe now that you are a brown, that is what you expect of yourself. But maybe that was never true to begin with--it was just your (mis)perception.
Perhaps things are different today. With the popularity of the UFC, videos on youtube, etc. BJJ is much more accessible. It seems that even the newbs off the street have at least seen a kimura, triangle, armbar, etc. They may even have a vague idea of how to power out of it.
I've heard from several guys who have been around a really long time (and I believe it) that the whites and blues of today are heads and shoulders better than those of the past. There are some white and blue belts out there that are very good/tough.
Just my .02.
As a crushing type of player, what do you feel are the main points that make or break the single underhook pass?