Richard Salamone,
I was wondering if you would be kind enough, and have the time to explain how you do the single leg finish called "run the pipe"?
Hi jonpall,
Sorry for the delay. I am and work now so I can't write my response but I will early tomorrow morning when I get up to do my paper work. For some reason, I was unable to log in earlier this morning when I planned to correspond with you..
Rich
No problem, Richard! Thanks for your time.
Hi jonpall,
A few preliminary points on the single leg takedown:
1) My bias is definitely for a "high" single leg vs. low. I sometimes attack a "sweep" single and sometimes a very low line straight "low" single but by far most of the time I attack a "high" single with the notion that I generally want to avoid all together (when possible)--or spend as little time as possible--on my knees where I am less mobile and consequently more vulnerable to my opponent's defense.
2) (I mostly lead my left leg forward so I will describe the technique thus.) If my opponent's left leg is forward, I focus on a double leg and outside single (or high crotch) to his left side. If my opponent is "uncooperative" and is leading his right leg, then I attack a single to his right leg, generally. While I will sometimes switch my lead leg and reverse the above, that is my general approach: double and outside single on one side, inside single on the other. I don't reverse my lead for a double leg or single else I cue more astute opponents about the nature of the impending attack.
3) Principles of a high single leg attack (to set up "running the pike"):
a: Lower your level prior to attacking. By virtue of lowering your level (i.e., "squatting" slightly but not so far you have to go to your knees), your opponent's leg/knee is more easily in reach at any given distance between your two bodies.
b: Your left hand moves in quickly to (behind) opponent's knee in a straight line from where ever it happens to be in the tie-up or set-up. Don't make a preparatory "wind-up" movement that takes more time and cues your opponent in to the initiation of your attack.
c: At the same time as b, step in with your left leg "fencing" style to just outside your opponent's right leg.
d: At the same time as b and c, your forehead, actually hairline, (not the crown of your head) ballistically makes contact with (about) your opponent's lateral right peck (not lower). The goal of this is to,
e: shift your opponent's weight to his left leg WITHOUT having to try to pick up his right leg. By virtue of moving (bumping) opponent's weight to his left leg, his right leg with tend to come up by itself. Also, by making contact with opponent's chest vs. lower, you make his defense of trying to lower your head with his stomach (and transitioning to front headlock, etc.) more difficult as his upper body has been "speared" back awkwardly upright over his supporting leg making his balance more precarious to where it is difficult for him to easily control your head.
f: Remember, the 1) hand movement, 2) step in, and 3) contact with the head to shift opponent's weight to his far leg occurs simultaneously.
g: Follow up QUICKLY with your right hand to your left; don't, for example, leave it (right hand) dangling up by your opponent's collar if you had a tie there. Also, just as quickly, follow up with your left leg; your goal is to continue your momentum into your opponent which will be limited if you don't follow up with your rear leg (i.e., a forward lunge and stop).
h: Now, my first priority is to keep my opponent moving back; I am more competent moving forward than backward just as my opponent so it is, generally, to my advantage to be moving forward at the expense of my opponent moving backward.
4) Now, before I get into "running the pike," you need to understand the context of all finishes from your feet. My opponent's position, relative to both himself as well as to me is crucial as this determines which finishes are (more) viable or not. I conceptual my opponent's position along three dimensions:
a: Is his weight (either by virtue of what he is trying to accomplish or by my manipulating his position) "heavy" or "light" on his supporting leg?
b: Is his center of gravity "inside," directly "over," or to the "outside" of his supporting foot?
c: Are his hips more facing me, neutral, or away? All of my finishes are accounted for by this matrix.
My root finish tends to be a "chopping" finish to my opponent's supporting leg after I transition his gripped leg from between my two legs to the outside. Why? Because, generally, if I have been successful in transitioning his weight over his supporting foot (or better yet slightly to the outside) it makes more sense to continue through to finish (and I am also keeping the weight "heavy" over opponent's supporting foot making it difficult for him to "hop" to a better balanced position). I feel it is more efficient to continue with the same motion than to plan, from the get-go, to go in then back up (to "run the pike").
I'll continue this post on another page as I am unsure of the volume of text I can do on one post.
Rich
Hi jonpall,
Continuing on...
4) OK, FINALLY, :-) getting to the "running the pike." ((RTP)
The position of my opponent, most favorable for to RTP is:
a: his center of gravity/weight inside his supporting foot vs. directly over or outside,
b: his hips facing you (even if slightly) vs. facing away (even if slightly),
c: his weight heavy on his supporting foot.
This is a common (but, of course, not the only) scenario: I was not effective in my initial attack to transfer opponent's weight over his supporting leg. He "hops" back on his supporting leg slightly, facing me slightly, beginning to work a whizzer in on my left arm. His weight is "inside" his supporting leg as he is using it as a post to push slightly to put some pressure on me as he works in his whizzer and handfights. By virtue of him pushing into me (and also my sagging my weight (KEEPING my head up in his chest, not below) the weight is increased on his supporting foot, good for posting and bracing/pushing into me but less favorable for his mobility.
I am going to presume you have a basic concept of the goal of "bowing" your opponent to the mat and I will limit myself to some tips to facilitate success and, hopefully, add something to your technique.
1) Before actually initiating the move, I sag "heavy" on my opponent, the goal of which is to increase the weight on his supporting leg to make it "stick" where it is and not be able to "hop" in to regain his balance once I initiate the finish. When I sag, I keep my head UP and don't incline it to "drift" down to my opponent's abdomen. When I do my preparatory sag I do so with my hips, keeping the relative level of my hips and head the same or at least very close.
2) With opponent's weight "heavy" on his supporting leg (of course being conscious that his center of gravity is still "inside" his supporting foot), I circle and bow by initiating movement with my right then left foot.
3) I bow but am very conscious not to do so with just my head but my hips, always trying to keep them lower than my head. I also keep my head in my opponent's chest and do not leg it drift down to his abdomen or, worse, leg (i.e., my face on his thigh). Contacting your opponent's chest with your head "off-balances" him better than when your head is lower, consequently diminishing his mobility and viable defensive options.
4) As I bow I circle but I want you to understand the basic goal with RTP. I can circle all day but if the weight is not heavy on my opponent's supporting leg, he will "hop" and follow me all day without going down. What I am trying to do, and what ultimately results in success, is keep my opponent's supporting leg "glued" to the mat by virtue of increasing the weight on it, then, with my circling motion, bring his hips (and, consequently, center of gravity) further inside of his supporting leg. The further I do this, the more precarious his balance. Given that I have his other leg--that would be a wonderful support on the side he his going to--there is a point where he will topple on his behind. Also, make a "wide" circle; a very "small" circle when you bow tends not to force his weight sufficiently away from his supporting leg.
5) To facilitate moving opponent's center of gravity even more away from his supporting leg, AS I bow (AGAIN, not just with my head, a common mistake), I also "draw" or pull my opponent's leg further through my crotch. I have an unorthodox grip that facilitates this (and generally keeping the weight very heavy on my opponent's leg) that is not possible to describe in a manner likely to make sense using just text).
6) I continue to keep my hips low and my head up (pushing his chest back) throughout else (in submission wrestling and BJJ) you risk a guillotine.
7) I immediately abandon the leg and move up to "cover" when opponent's behind hits the mat, keeping my head up all the while.
I am still working with my computer/web people but I am hoping to soon have the capacity to post clips to help supplement my ramblings.
Hope that helps and good luck!
Rich
Thanks a million for an AWESOME and detailed post, Richard! It was most appreciated. I can sense that you really love wrestling and grappling.
I always thought that pulling my opponent's leg between my leg with straight arms AND adding pressure inwards to his ankle and outwards on his knee was a big part of the move. His leg will rotate around his knee in a sort of "Lotus position" (you know, when you sit, have your knees wide and feet close to your butt to stretch). I believe that a similar concept is used on some finishes to the low single leg. I've found that twisting the leg like this will make most people fall, even really big ones. If I'm not mistaken, this is similar to what you're explaining in step 5 above, isn't it?
For the record, here are two of my highest percentage finishes to the single leg: (Note that I've done very little wrestling in submission grappling :) )
I lift his leg up, but he tries to get his leg back down on the mat. I let him (sucker :) ). Then I drop my hips really low, bending my legs, drop my inside knee on the mat between his legs and move my head to the outside. My back is upright and my head is tight against the outside of his hips. I then do one of 2 types of double leg takedowns:
He leans into me. In that case I rotate on my knee and turn him in a steering-wheel motion on the mat behind me, driving with my supporting leg and pushing into him with my head, trying to look behind me. I don't get up to my feet and this isn't a cool, high lift takedown. He just goes down like a chopped tree, slow and nice.
He leans back. I step behind his leg with my outside leg and use my leg to pull his heel towards me while I pressure into his knee with my chest. That's again playing with the knee and the ankle, a similar concept to what I was describing earlier. Again, I don't get up to my feet and this isn't a high altitude throw.
Are these takedowns any good? I'd like to get better at running the pipe and also the move you first described (I believe it's called a Barsager?).
Is rotating my head to the outside like I described going to work against decent guys? I also know that you might frown upon me not getting back onto my feet after I get to the double leg position, but I just find it so hard to do that against bigger guys. I'd rather just do one of the 2 moves I described above. If I can get my head tight against the side of his hips (which I can, if I set up my double from the single, as I described), I find that I can often do one of those 2 moves.
Sorry about the rambling :)
Cheers,
jonpall.
Hi jonpall,
Thanks for the kind words.
What you are doing with your grip is excellent as you clearly understand the basic principle of toppling your opponent; getting his center of gravity (butt) as far (as quickly) as you can from his supporting post (foot).
Both of your approaches to finishing the double, transitioning from the single, are fine; just be careful not to stay "down" on your knees too long. When you are on your knees, you generally are most vulnerable to your opponent's defensive maneuvers so time is of the essence in terms of finishing.
As I indicated in my above post, there are other finishes to a high single leg that I tend to work first with the RTP more typically being a secondary finish. If you think of the three positions (weight down or leg up, weight inside or outside, hips facing in or out) that will give you a framework for understanding your single leg finishes and what move make sense in what circumstance.
Also, dogface is correct; it is "running the pipe" (although it is called some other names too), not "running the pike." Typo on my part. :-)
Rich
TiTTy!
great thread!
Richard, do you mind if I use this explanation in My wrestling Ebook? If you would like, you can be credited.
Itshalfful,
No problem. You can use any you want. I put them up to share them.
Rich
Just make sure you also include "jonpall, the supreme overlord and creator of all things kewl, asked Richard Salamone a question one rainy day".
;)