Christ, have you even seen the Mir/Freeman fight? You do understand that Frank was still learning the sport when Freeman beat the shit out of him?
You saw the samething when Brock made a rookie mistake against Mir in their first fight.
Randy wasn't a rookie when his faced Brock and was the current HW champion.
Again, did you not see the belly on Frank when he fought Vera?
Holy shit, nobones. Your overwhelming FRAT-ness puts even my own FRAT-ness to shame. And yet, even after so many, many words and numbingly repeated posts (which I doubt anyone has actually read through anyway) - nothing you say can actually corroborate your claims that Struve was a top-20 HW, and that Nelson is somehow a top-10 HW today (and especially not ahead of Barnett).
Nor can anything you say even remotely refute any of these facts:
Fact: Struve was not top-20 on any major, credible ranking that even went out to 20 at the time. (And yet Struve is still the only opponent who is even remotely close to top-20-level that Nelson has ever officially beaten.)
Fact: Roy Nelson is not top-10 on any major, credible top-10 rankings today.
Fact: Barnett is universally ranked higher than or included on more rankings than Nelson is.
So for all of your sprawling FRAT's - ultimately, can you even dispute any of these facts? Of course not. (Otherwise, please just cite a single major, credible ranking that goes to 20, that actually did have Struve in their top 20 - and a single major, credible ranking that actually does have Roy Nelson in the top 10 today. Go ahead.)
Why do you think these facts actually exist in reality? Why is it that no credible source seems to agree with you about Roy Nelson being top-10 - and about Roy Nelson being better than or more rank-worthy than Barnett? If your conclusions are so reasonable - why are you so seemingly alone in them? (Isolated and aberrant as usual.) Why do no other eminent, reasonable sources seem to feel the same?
Maybe it's because based on actual wins and losses - AND based on perceived skill, btw - by NO standard of measure is Nelson ahead of Barnett. Barnett has had better wins than Nelson over their careers, PLUS has had similar or even slightly better wins than Nelson even in just the last few years alone - PLUS has not lost recently like Nelson has and is still on a win streak - AND would be favored to straight-up beat Nelson as well.
And yet according to you, Roy Nelson is still somehow ahead of Barnett anyway, somehow even top-10 - while it is even a "much more difficult argument to place Barnett even in a top 20 list." Delusional. Sometimes I think you almost have to be trolling nobones, because no one can really be this genuinely stupid and absurd - and come up with these truly singular, reality-defying conclusions.
Again, there is a clear-cut and almost universally agreed-upon top 11 at HW right now - Brock, Werdum, Fedor, Cain, Dos Santos, Carwin, Mir, Nog, Alistair, Antonio Silva, and Barnett. That's it. No one else in the HW division is even reasonably ahead of those guys, by any standard of measure. (And certainly not Nelson, who isn't even reasonably arguably top-10 - nor in fact does a single major, credible ranking actually have him in the top 10.)
The UFC has 6 of those top 11 - Strikeforce has 5 of those 11. And the top-5 or 6 for each are of very comparable levels to each other - where the overall quality or superiority of those top-5 or 6 is VERY debatable (as evidenced by the debate on this thread itself). (The UFC has more of the top 20, top 30, etc., beyond that top 11, though - which is why the UFC has the advantage with more sheer quantity and depth.)
WALES1 - What has Babalu done at HW?
Babalu was actually a legit HW contender at the time. In fact, Babalu was a top contender in the UFC's HW division then, as well as the best HW left in RINGS after Nog had left, and was even the favorite to win the whole RINGS HW championship tournament when he faced Fedor.
Babalu was also a 230 lbs. HW then - in fact, he was even slightly bigger than Fedor at that point - and had beaten Mo Smith in a HW contenders fight in the UFC (where Babalu was also bigger than Mo) and had beaten TK when TK was still a top-level HW as well. (He had also had other noteworthy wins over Tamura and Illoukhine, and submitted Georgian Olympic HW wrestler Grom Zaza, and just brutalized another HW in Brad Kohler with probably the most vicious soccer kick ever to that point.)
(And btw, Babalu also represented Brazil in wrestling in international competition - and actually took the bronze at the Pan Ams in the 265 lb. SUPER-heavyweight division. Yes, super-HW. And if you think the field was weak or not so formidable, the other bronze medalist alongside him that year was Alexis Rodriguez of Cuba, a multi-time World/Olympic medalist at 265.)
In fact, Babalu was actually FAVORED to beat Fedor at that point. And in addition to being an upset, Babalu was actually Fedor's first big, definitive win of his career - the one that really first put him on the map as a legit HW contender in turn - and which also won him his first major title, the RINGS HW championship.
Mo Smith came into that fight out of shape, but let's just look at what the records say.....
You are not going to argue that Babalu is a better HW that Mir? Which is what the other poster did.
Brock can't take credit for a win against Mir, but Fedor can take credit for beating Babalu?
WALES1 -
You are not going to argue that Babalu is a better HW that Mir? Which is what the other poster did.
No I didn't. You love putting words in peoples mouths and saying shit that you later say "oh but I was meant to say...." about, you fucking lying little dicktuck weasel.
Stop playing fucking word games you goon.
If I said that ANYWAY please quote me directly.
You are low as fuck pal.
whistleblower -WALES1 - What has Babalu done at HW?
Babalu was actually a legit HW contender at the time. In fact, Babalu was a top contender in the UFC's HW division then, as well as the best HW left in RINGS after Nog had left, and was even the favorite to win the whole RINGS HW championship tournament when he faced Fedor.
Babalu was also a 230 lbs. HW then - in fact, he was even slightly bigger than Fedor at that point - and had beaten Mo Smith in a HW contenders fight in the UFC (where Babalu was also bigger than Mo) and had beaten TK when TK was still a top-level HW as well. (He had also had other noteworthy wins over Tamura and Illoukhine, and submitted Georgian Olympic HW wrestler Grom Zaza, and just brutalized another HW in Brad Kohler with probably the most vicious soccer kick ever to that point.)
(And btw, Babalu also represented Brazil in wrestling in international competition - and actually took the bronze at the Pan Ams in the 265 lb. SUPER-heavyweight division. Yes, super-HW. And if you think the field was weak or not so formidable, the other bronze medalist alongside him that year was Alexis Rodriguez of Cuba, a multi-time World/Olympic medalist at 265.)
In fact, Babalu was actually FAVORED to beat Fedor at that point. And in addition to being an upset, Babalu was actually Fedor's first big, definitive win of his career - the one that really first put him on the map as a legit HW contender in turn - and which also won him his first major title, the RINGS HW championship.
Thank you. Somebody who was actual watching MMA at the time sets this idiot straight.
rockwell -WALES1 -
You are not going to argue that Babalu is a better HW that Mir? Which is what the other poster did.
No I didn't. You love putting words in peoples mouths and saying shit that you later say "oh but I was meant to say...." about, you fucking lying little dicktuck weasel.
Stop playing fucking word games you goon.
If I said that ANYWAY please quote me directly.
You are low as fuck pal.
Nice dick tuck!
You listed all of Brock's wins.
You stated that you thought Mir was shite.
And then you listed Babalu as one of Fedor's wins.
You even tried to build a case for Bobby Hoffman.
rockwell - Lesnar's streak:
4 Fights including
Herring (part time, not training right for years and waaaay outside top 10),
Couture (14 years and 60+lbs),
Mir (Meh some like him I think he's shite),
Carwin (who tooled him until he gassed)
Fedor's streak:
27 fights (could be more but for a tournament when he got a cut from an illegal elbow)
Herring (young, prime and highly rated at the time)
Big Nog (Top 3 at the time)
CroCop (Top 3 at the time)
Arlovski (Top 3 at the time)
Sylvia (Top 5 at the time)
Hoffman (Not sure where he ranked at the time but with wins over Herring, Overeem and Ricco Rodriguez)
Rogers (Top 10 at the time)
Babalu
Randleman (who couldn't even stop him by dropping him on his head)
Schilt (K1 top dog)
Coleman (Legend)
and that is without any "cans" as you call them.
Fedor beat all these guys in a row. A bit long row that was unbroken until earlier this year.
There is your list.
Mir quuote: "Meh some like him I think he's shite"
And nothing next to Babalu - Is he a bigger win that Mir?
Again since you are squirming out of your own words once again. Where, and please quote directly, did I say that Babalu is better than Mir? 
You guys are both dumbasses.
WALES1 -
Nice dick tuck!
You listed all of Brock's wins.
You stated that you thought Mir was shite.
And then you listed Babalu as one of Fedor's wins.
You even tried to build a case for Bobby Hoffman.
Now let's just clear one thing up.
YOU said
WALES1 -Take away the cans and the freak shows and then you get the correct number......
Fedor beat legit HWs, but he did it between fighting cans and freak.
To which I provided a list of fighters who I believe Fedor fought that were not cans.
rockwell -
Fedor's streak:
27 fights (could be more but for a tournament when he got a cut from an illegal elbow)
Herring (young, prime and highly rated at the time)
Big Nog (Top 3 at the time)
CroCop (Top 3 at the time)
Arlovski (Top 3 at the time)
Sylvia (Top 5 at the time)
Hoffman (Not sure where he ranked at the time but with wins over Herring, Overeem and Ricco Rodriguez)
Rogers (Top 10 at the time)
Babalu
Randleman (who couldn't even stop him by dropping him on his head)
Schilt (K1 top dog)
Coleman (Legend) EDIT: Should have mentioned he was ranked 8th best HW at the time
and that is without any "cans" as you call them.
Your dipshit response to the list I put up was
WALES1 - You still rated Babalu, Randleman and Rogers over Mir. How?
Well guess what. At no point did I compare these fighters to Mir. YOU were trying to discredit Fedor's streak by saying his record was padded with cans. But none of the people in my list were cans.
So it's not a question of who I think is better than who.
It's a list of people who Fedor fought who are/were not cans.
So if you think any of the people in my list are cans then explain why.
whistleblower has clearly shown you that you are fucking idiot.
YOU said
WALES1 - No, I don't think Babalu is a tough fight for a HW. He is a LHW.
and he destroyed your fucking bullshit assumption (kind of proves you were never really in it at the time).
whistleblower -WALES1 - What has Babalu done at HW?
Babalu was actually a legit HW contender at the time. In fact, Babalu was a top contender in the UFC's HW division then, as well as the best HW left in RINGS after Nog had left, and was even the favorite to win the whole RINGS HW championship tournament when he faced Fedor.
Babalu was also a 230 lbs. HW then - in fact, he was even slightly bigger than Fedor at that point - and had beaten Mo Smith in a HW contenders fight in the UFC (where Babalu was also bigger than Mo) and had beaten TK when TK was still a top-level HW as well. (He had also had other noteworthy wins over Tamura and Illoukhine, and submitted Georgian Olympic HW wrestler Grom Zaza, and just brutalized another HW in Brad Kohler with probably the most vicious soccer kick ever to that point.)
(And btw, Babalu also represented Brazil in wrestling in international competition - and actually took the bronze at the Pan Ams in the 265 lb. SUPER-heavyweight division. Yes, super-HW. And if you think the field was weak or not so formidable, the other bronze medalist alongside him that year was Alexis Rodriguez of Cuba, a multi-time World/Olympic medalist at 265.)
In fact, Babalu was actually FAVORED to beat Fedor at that point. And in addition to being an upset, Babalu was actually Fedor's first big, definitive win of his career - the one that really first put him on the map as a legit HW contender in turn - and which also won him his first major title, the RINGS HW championship.
Realising you are full of fucking shit and don't know what you are on about you start being disingenuous claiming I rated Mir above Babalu.
WALES1 - You are not going to argue that Babalu is a better HW that Mir? Which is what the other poster did.
So kindly give us your opinions on which of the guys from my list were "cans" and if not SHUT THE FUCK UP.
MrColdCock - You guys are both dumbasses.
Fuck you. If you don't like it. Don't read it.
Fucking crybaby.
rockwell -MrColdCock - You guys are both dumbasses.
Fuck you. If you don't like it. Don't read it.
Fucking crybaby.
No this thread has had a lot of good debate back and forth and you two noobs are dominating this thread arguing about whether Bobby Hoffman was considered a great win for Fedor. I'll just leave you guys alone in your fantasy world. You'll figure it out soon enough.
rockwell
It's easy to look at Hoffman and say he was a 'can' but that only proves you weren't there at the time.
Actually this thread was mostly shit now that I look back at it. Nice to see the monthly Whistleblower ownage of nobones though.
MrColdCock -rockwell
It's easy to look at Hoffman and say he was a 'can' but that only proves you weren't there at the time.
Says more about you than me brother.
If a 6ft 2inch, 245lb guy with a record of 27-4-1 including wins over Ricco Rodriguez, Overeem and Herring (and had only lost to Barnett, Volk Han and Maurice Smith) in 2001 was a 'can' to you then why weren't you fighting for the Rings HW championship that night? You wouldn't have had to throw a punch.
MrColdCock -rockwell -MrColdCock - You guys are both dumbasses.
Fuck you. If you don't like it. Don't read it.
Fucking crybaby.
No this thread has had a lot of good debate back and forth and you two noobs are dominating this thread arguing about whether Bobby Hoffman was considered a great win for Fedor. I'll just leave you guys alone in your fantasy world. You'll figure it out soon enough.
There is no argument about Bobby Hoffman. His 'fight' with Fedor is not the issue.
We are discussing Babalu.
rockwell -WALES1 -
Nice dick tuck!
You listed all of Brock's wins.
You stated that you thought Mir was shite.
And then you listed Babalu as one of Fedor's wins.
You even tried to build a case for Bobby Hoffman.
Now let's just clear one thing up.
YOU saidWALES1 -Take away the cans and the freak shows and then you get the correct number......
Fedor beat legit HWs, but he did it between fighting cans and freak.
To which I provided a list of fighters who I believe Fedor fought that were not cans.rockwell -
Fedor's streak:
27 fights (could be more but for a tournament when he got a cut from an illegal elbow)
Herring (young, prime and highly rated at the time)
Big Nog (Top 3 at the time)
CroCop (Top 3 at the time)
Arlovski (Top 3 at the time)
Sylvia (Top 5 at the time)
Hoffman (Not sure where he ranked at the time but with wins over Herring, Overeem and Ricco Rodriguez)
Rogers (Top 10 at the time)
Babalu
Randleman (who couldn't even stop him by dropping him on his head)
Schilt (K1 top dog)
Coleman (Legend) EDIT: Should have mentioned he was ranked 8th best HW at the time
and that is without any "cans" as you call them.
Your dipshit response to the list I put up wasWALES1 - You still rated Babalu, Randleman and Rogers over Mir. How?
Well guess what. At no point did I compare these fighters to Mir. YOU were trying to discredit Fedor's streak by saying his record was padded with cans. But none of the people in my list were cans.
So it's not a question of who I think is better than who.
It's a list of people who Fedor fought who are/were not cans.
So if you think any of the people in my list are cans then explain why.
whistleblower has clearly shown you that you are fucking idiot.
YOU saidWALES1 - No, I don't think Babalu is a tough fight for a HW. He is a LHW.
and he destroyed your fucking bullshit assumption (kind of proves you were never really in it at the time).whistleblower -WALES1 - What has Babalu done at HW?
Babalu was actually a legit HW contender at the time. In fact, Babalu was a top contender in the UFC's HW division then, as well as the best HW left in RINGS after Nog had left, and was even the favorite to win the whole RINGS HW championship tournament when he faced Fedor.
Babalu was also a 230 lbs. HW then - in fact, he was even slightly bigger than Fedor at that point - and had beaten Mo Smith in a HW contenders fight in the UFC (where Babalu was also bigger than Mo) and had beaten TK when TK was still a top-level HW as well. (He had also had other noteworthy wins over Tamura and Illoukhine, and submitted Georgian Olympic HW wrestler Grom Zaza, and just brutalized another HW in Brad Kohler with probably the most vicious soccer kick ever to that point.)
(And btw, Babalu also represented Brazil in wrestling in international competition - and actually took the bronze at the Pan Ams in the 265 lb. SUPER-heavyweight division. Yes, super-HW. And if you think the field was weak or not so formidable, the other bronze medalist alongside him that year was Alexis Rodriguez of Cuba, a multi-time World/Olympic medalist at 265.)
In fact, Babalu was actually FAVORED to beat Fedor at that point. And in addition to being an upset, Babalu was actually Fedor's first big, definitive win of his career - the one that really first put him on the map as a legit HW contender in turn - and which also won him his first major title, the RINGS HW championship.
Realising you are full of fucking shit and don't know what you are on about you start being disingenuous claiming I rated Mir above Babalu.WALES1 - You are not going to argue that Babalu is a better HW that Mir? Which is what the other poster did.
So kindly give us your opinions on which of the guys from my list were "cans" and if not SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Keep fucking dick tucking.
You called Mir shite.
What was your purpose of listing Babalu? Just for a laugh?
If those fighters you listed that Hoffman beat were early on in their career. UFC Ricco and PRIDE Heath would of smashed Hoffman.
For example, current Mir would be the Freeman that beat him in UFC 38.
And I did disagree with WB, Mo Smith was out of shape for the Babalu fight.
And Babalu did not have an impact at HW, he had a much bigger impact at LHW.
Was Babalu a can?