graciesrule -shen -I think Carlos, jr is correct, in that it has to be about TIME in grade after black belt. The reason being there's no viable way to get people to agree on who deseves a rank and who doesn't. If you try to go down that road, immediately it becomes all about politics, favoritism and promoting those close to you to higher ranks so they can have "authority" over other practitioners.
A sort of "rank race" ensues ("If that guy is a 6th degree, then I should be a 7th degree") and you end up with the McDojo type nonsese we have today in a giant segment of the martial arts world, with countless 35 year old "Grandmasters" and "Red Belts".
At that point , rank becomes so watered down it's almost completely meaningless.
American Kenpo, most styles of American Jujutsu, Kajukenbo, etc. have all gone though some version of this.
Time in grade is not a "perfect" system, but I think in practice, it's better than the alternatives because it isn't subjective.
<span class="User-126757" id="userPost60527679">I kind of like the Judo way of the first 5 Dans based on competition, then last 5 honorary time based. The problem with BJJ is the sport verses self defense school argument. By doing time only all ranks above Black become honorary. To me Roger and Marcelo should e higher ranks than Ryron/Rener, just my opinion.</span></blockquote>
Just like BJJ, there are plenty of Judoka who've never competed. You can get you black belt in Judo without competing, it just takes longer.
Generally speaking in the martial arts, rank isn't so much about being "better" than someone; it's not a ranking of how good you are, relative to other pratitioners. That is more what competitions are for.
Rank is generally more about time & experience in a given art.
If you try to make it all about performance --like x should be higher ranked than y because he's better-- then it becomes almost impossible. I mean, how do you get people to agree about who's better than whom? There is no practical way to do that.
SidRon -What's the point of the adult green belt? I see those once in awhile.
It’s a newish phenomenon- people figured out that most people quit before reaching their blue belt, so they wanted to put the green belt in place to motivate them…kinda like stripes.
- It seems like a silly thing, but it makes good enough business sense- and people I respect a ton- like Liborio/ATT and Robson Moura all use it.
(When I started training in 2000, I’m not even sure stripes were around.)
shen -graciesrule -At least in the UK you have to rack up wins from brown to 5th Dan. Back in the day you had to do grading tournaments from white through black and collect tournament points (10 per ippon) through to 5th Dan. These days you can (eventually) kata your way through from white to 5th Dan without scoring a single competitive ippon, providing you can live for 300 years.shen -I think Carlos, jr is correct, in that it has to be about TIME in grade after black belt. The reason being there's no viable way to get people to agree on who deseves a rank and who doesn't. If you try to go down that road, immediately it becomes all about politics, favoritism and promoting those close to you to higher ranks so they can have "authority" over other practitioners.
A sort of "rank race" ensues ("If that guy is a 6th degree, then I should be a 7th degree") and you end up with the McDojo type nonsese we have today in a giant segment of the martial arts world, with countless 35 year old "Grandmasters" and "Red Belts".
At that point , rank becomes so watered down it's almost completely meaningless.
American Kenpo, most styles of American Jujutsu, Kajukenbo, etc. have all gone though some version of this.
Time in grade is not a "perfect" system, but I think in practice, it's better than the alternatives because it isn't subjective.
<span class="User-126757" id="userPost60527679">I kind of like the Judo way of the first 5 Dans based on competition, then last 5 honorary time based. The problem with BJJ is the sport verses self defense school argument. By doing time only all ranks above Black become honorary. To me Roger and Marcelo should e higher ranks than Ryron/Rener, just my opinion.</span></blockquote>
Just like BJJ, there are plenty of Judoka who've never competed. You can get you black belt in Judo without competing, it just takes longer.
Generally speaking in the martial arts, rank isn't so much about being "better" than someone; it's not a ranking of how good you are, relative to other pratitioners. That is more what competitions are for.
Rank is generally more about time & experience in a given art.
If you try to make it all about performance --like x should be higher ranked than y because he's better-- then it becomes almost impossible. I mean, how do you get people to agree about who's better than whom? There is no practical way to do that.
vidavaletudo -shen -graciesrule -At least in the UK you have to rack up wins from brown to 5th Dan. Back in the day you had to do grading tournaments from white through black and collect tournament points (10 per ippon) through to 5th Dan. These days you can (eventually) kata your way through from white to 5th Dan without scoring a single competitive ippon, providing you can live for 300 years.shen -I think Carlos, jr is correct, in that it has to be about TIME in grade after black belt. The reason being there's no viable way to get people to agree on who deseves a rank and who doesn't. If you try to go down that road, immediately it becomes all about politics, favoritism and promoting those close to you to higher ranks so they can have "authority" over other practitioners.
A sort of "rank race" ensues ("If that guy is a 6th degree, then I should be a 7th degree") and you end up with the McDojo type nonsese we have today in a giant segment of the martial arts world, with countless 35 year old "Grandmasters" and "Red Belts".
At that point , rank becomes so watered down it's almost completely meaningless.
American Kenpo, most styles of American Jujutsu, Kajukenbo, etc. have all gone though some version of this.
Time in grade is not a "perfect" system, but I think in practice, it's better than the alternatives because it isn't subjective.
<span class="User-126757" id="userPost60527679">I kind of like the Judo way of the first 5 Dans based on competition, then last 5 honorary time based. The problem with BJJ is the sport verses self defense school argument. By doing time only all ranks above Black become honorary. To me Roger and Marcelo should e higher ranks than Ryron/Rener, just my opinion.</span></blockquote>
Just like BJJ, there are plenty of Judoka who've never competed. You can get you black belt in Judo without competing, it just takes longer.
Generally speaking in the martial arts, rank isn't so much about being "better" than someone; it's not a ranking of how good you are, relative to other pratitioners. That is more what competitions are for.
Rank is generally more about time & experience in a given art.
If you try to make it all about performance --like x should be higher ranked than y because he's better-- then it becomes almost impossible. I mean, how do you get people to agree about who's better than whom? There is no practical way to do that.
Grandmaster Mansur a Helio red belt who runs Kioto Bjj has a point system for all your belts in BJJ. I’d like to know more about it. He was also the first to have curriculum in BJJ.
^^^ I"d love to hear about this too.