I was reading an article saying they are now 6 different belt ranking systems used today, what is the best?
1. Original: white, blue, navy
2. Fjj Rio-Robson(Helio/Carlos) 1967
3. IBJJF
4. JJGF
5. Royce & Valante Bros.
6. Ivan & Jose Gomes
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Actually, there are 7 BJJ Rank Systems...
As reported in Jiujitsu Times, The Shen BJJ Assn Rank System has exactly 27 different colored belts (not counting stripes) and is SCIENTIFICALLY based onthe nexus of the visible color spectrum and human learning patterns.
The other belt ranking systems are, quite frankly, just random stuff people made up.
Personally, I'd go with the one based on science.
Meatgrinder -
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Probably because it was created by a Gracie that was about 15 th in line of the family in seniority at the time and was also about a money grab.
graciesrule -Meatgrinder -
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Probably because it was created by a Gracie that was about 15 th in line of the family in seniority at the time and was also about a money grab.
The motivation and level of family seniority is irrelevant to my point. I'm not going down the family drama she said he said petty arguments. The ibbjf become the most successful and widely distributed platform for competition and standards.
Meatgrinder -graciesrule -Meatgrinder -
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Probably because it was created by a Gracie that was about 15 th in line of the family in seniority at the time and was also about a money grab.
The motivation and level of family seniority is irrelevant to my point. I'm not going down the family drama she said he said petty arguments. The ibbjf become the most successful and widely distributed platform for competition and standards.
At this point this is the truth. The best guys compete in Ibjjf so it's pretty much the standard at this point. Unless no gi, it's becoming a thing of its own and they do what they want.
graciesrule -Are you talking g about Carlos Jr? How was he ever 15th in line in seniority? He's easily close to the top 5. He was one of their best grapplers back in the day, being picked for the 5 member allstar team to go to the sambo tourney (armlocked Relson for the spot). I dont think anyone outside of (some of) Helios sons recognized Rorion as any kind of authority, especially in Brazil. One could also easily argue he's the most entrepreneurial of all of them.Meatgrinder -
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Probably because it was created by a Gracie that was about 15 th in line of the family in seniority at the time and was also about a money grab.
But back to original topic, the w-blu-p-br-bl system is fine with me. Stripes are a hanging carrot imho. There's always going to be differences in individuals at each rank, but 5 ranks seems like its working.
I prefer the FJJ Rio system, which is basically the same as the IBJJF apart from the 8th degree red/white belt that the IBJJF brough in a few years ago. I'm not a fan of the red/white belt, it's too much of a steal from Judo for my tastes, and not really neccessary.
James
Sir Taps -
I prefer the FJJ Rio system, which is basically the same as the IBJJF apart from the 8th degree red/white belt that the IBJJF brough in a few years ago. I'm not a fan of the red/white belt, it's too much of a steal from Judo for my tastes, and not really neccessary.
James
If BJJ didn't steal from Judo it would just be naked dudes slapping each other.
chief123 -graciesrule -Are you talking g about Carlos Jr? How was he ever 15th in line in seniority? He's easily close to the top 5. He was one of their best grapplers back in the day, being picked for the 5 member allstar team to go to the sambo tourney (armlocked Relson for the spot). I dont think anyone outside of (some of) Helios sons recognized Rorion as any kind of authority, especially in Brazil. One could also easily argue he's the most entrepreneurial of all of them.Meatgrinder -
ibjjf has the critical mass to be default standard. Not sure why people fight that. I think it's great that there are other tournaments and formats out there, but the ibbjf has done a lot of good too for the general state of standards.
Probably because it was created by a Gracie that was about 15 th in line of the family in seniority at the time and was also about a money grab.
But back to original topic, the w-blu-p-br-bl system is fine with me. Stripes are a hanging carrot imho. There's always going to be differences in individuals at each rank, but 5 ranks seems like its working.
Seniority is about your rank and when you earned it when, not fighting ability.
Seniority list when IBJJF was founded:
1. Helio
2. Carlson Sr
3. Robson
4. Reyson
5. Reylson
6. Rosley
7. Carley
8. Rorion
9. Relson
10. Rocian
11. Carlion
12. Rickson
13. Carlos Jr
Ok so he was 13 th not 15 th, lol. As far as pecking order Carlos jr was not consider that high either even though it's true about him beating Relson because he did not do Vale Tudo or even the family challenge matches. Also even though he is 2 years older than Rickson he was promoted to Black after Rickson.
According to Helio, degrees after black belt are based on teaching ability/experience and not fighting skill or record.
Based on his service to Gjj/Bjj and his teaching experience, Carlos Jr would rank higher than Rosely, Carley, Rocian, Carlion and Relson.
FingerorMoon -Sir Taps -
I prefer the FJJ Rio system, which is basically the same as the IBJJF apart from the 8th degree red/white belt that the IBJJF brough in a few years ago. I'm not a fan of the red/white belt, it's too much of a steal from Judo for my tastes, and not really neccessary.
JamesIf BJJ didn't steal from Judo it would just be naked dudes slapping each other.
... while being VERY careful not to eat raw bananas with honey.
m.g - According to Helio, degrees after black belt are based on teaching ability/experience and not fighting skill or record.
Based on his service to Gjj/Bjj and his teaching experience, Carlos Jr would rank higher than Rosely, Carley, Rocian, Carlion and Relson.
Well I was talking about there belt rank at the time of forming of the IBJJF, which the Carlos Jr had little service record.
Also that degree for teaching thing changed. I have an article from Rickson from the early 90's were at that time he said fighting ability could bring you to 7 th degree and that is why he was awarded his 7 th at 30, while Rorion was a 6 th degree and Relson was 5 th. That was the old Judo way also. competition could bring you up to 7 th Dan(lower now). Helio later changed up and made it teaching experience and jump both Rorion and Relson in rank over Rickson and also why Ryron & Rener had so many degrees but were not that active in competition.
Sir Taps -
I prefer the FJJ Rio system, which is basically the same as the IBJJF apart from the 8th degree red/white belt that the IBJJF brough in a few years ago. I'm not a fan of the red/white belt, it's too much of a steal from Judo for my tastes, and not really neccessary.
James
I cannot stand the red/white belt and yes stole from judo, but also the USJA uses the red/black belt for 4 th & 5 th Dan in the USA. Confusing
graciesrule -m.g - According to Helio, degrees after black belt are based on teaching ability/experience and not fighting skill or record.
Based on his service to Gjj/Bjj and his teaching experience, Carlos Jr would rank higher than Rosely, Carley, Rocian, Carlion and Relson.
Well I was talking about there belt rank at the time of forming of the IBJJF, which the Carlos Jr had little service record.
Also that degree for teaching thing changed. I have an article from Rickson from the early 90's were at that time he said fighting ability could bring you to 7 th degree and that is why he was awarded his 7 th at 30, while Rorion was a 6 th degree and Relson was 5 th. That was the old Judo way also. competition could bring you up to 7 th Dan(lower now). Helio later changed up and made it teaching experience and jump both Rorion and Relson in rank over Rickson and also why Ryron & Rener had so many degrees but were not that active in competition.
that and nepotism
What are the differences between all these? I'm familiar with some but a few I have no idea about.
How many are using the adult green belt now?
The standard system works for me. For the most part the belt level shows. Coral belts can decide about red/black red/white because I'll never see that.
Why is relson talked about?! The guy did nothing
carlos is far more important. And pretty sure he was notthe founder of the ibjjf
ckaa -Why is relson talked about?! The guy did nothing
carlos is far more important. And pretty sure he was notthe founder of the ibjjf
but he fought a vale tudo unlke Carlos Jr.! Against some unknown karate bum that knew nothing about BJJ.
And it was on concrete! that elevates him to legend status!
Some people are just plain stupid. Carlos Jr. by far>>>Relson
You gotta be kidding me. His seniority in the family has nothing to do with what he did with the IBJJF or anything. What was he supposed to do, wait 40 years till his seniors had tried their hand first at his idea?
I think Carlos, jr is correct, in that it has to be about TIME in grade after black belt. The reason being there's no viable way to get people to agree on who deseves a rank and who doesn't. If you try to go down that road, immediately it becomes all about politics, favoritism and promoting those close to you to higher ranks so they can have "authority" over other practitioners.
A sort of "rank race" ensues ("If that guy is a 6th degree, then I should be a 7th degree") and you end up with the McDojo type nonsese we have today in a giant segment of the martial arts world, with countless 35 year old "Grandmasters" and "Red Belts".
At that point , rank becomes so watered down it's almost completely meaningless.
American Kenpo, most styles of American Jujutsu, Kajukenbo, etc. have all gone though some version of this.
Time in grade is not a "perfect" system, but I think in practice, it's better than the alternatives because it isn't subjective.
shen -
I think Carlos, jr is correct, in that it has to be about TIME in grade after black belt. The reason being there's no viable way to get people to agree on who deseves a rank and who doesn't. If you try to go down that road, immediately it becomes all about politics, favoritism and promoting those close to you to higher ranks so they can have "authority" over other practitioners.
A sort of "rank race" ensues ("If that guy is a 6th degree, then I should be a 7th degree") and you end up with the McDojo type nonsese we have today in a giant segment of the martial arts world, with countless 35 year old "Grandmasters" and "Red Belts".
At that point , rank becomes so watered down it's almost completely meaningless.
American Kenpo, most styles of American Jujutsu, Kajukenbo, etc. have all gone though some version of this.
Time in grade is not a "perfect" system, but I think in practice, it's better than the alternatives because it isn't subjective.
I kind of like the Judo way of the first 5 Dans based on competition, then last 5 honorary time based. The problem with BJJ is the sport verses self defense school argument. By doing time only all ranks above Black become honorary. To me Roger and Marcelo should e higher ranks than Ryron/Rener, just my opinion.