Also try gunbroker.net
a little extra and get this
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1797769759
<embed src="http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1797769759">
Get a USP!
springfield xd
I own an XD and LOVE it...I was just recomending the Beretta based on your list.
btw -
ALOT of store will bargin with you -
figure you can easily not 10-20% off a gun by asking and/or shopping around
TTT
"I can say without a doubt that my Ruger P series are the most reliable semi auto handguns I own. "
They aint sexy and I didnt like their form factor for carry. But they will shoot and shoot and shoot without complaint.
YEAH!
On my way to the shop now
I can tell you why Glocks are better than Rugers with the understanding that it's gonna be subjective anyway ;)
Glocks have less parts to fail and along these lines the design is simple enough so that armorer classes last only one day and someone who is not mechanically inclined can learn how to detail strip it with minimal instruction using a nail, awl, etc as the tool.
the tactile (feel-able) reset on the glock is much shorter, allowing for faster follow up shots.
DAO trigger on Rugers sucks. DAO trigger on a Glock is much superior AND more easily tuned. Even the SA pull of a DA Ruger still leaves much to be desired, this aside from the inconsitancy of the most important DA shot and the follow ups.
The safety on Rugers is absolutely nuts, unergonomic and fumble prone.. at least relative to 1911s.
Glocks slides are treated with tenifer, which both provides corrosion resistance AND makes the hardness of the metal way beyond that of tempered steel (unless you want it very brittle = not good). Even if the outer phosphate/parkerizing wears off, the protection is still there.
To my knowledge there are no .22LR units available for Ruger, while they are for Glock. This means a LOT of low cost practice and plinking fun at the range.
Are airsoft replicas for Rugers readily available for FOF training? They are for Glocks.
Are bluegun replicas available for Rugers for knife and retention drills where airsoft will get crushed? They are for Glocks.
The striker fired design of the glock allows for a much higher grip which in turn will lower the bore axis very significantly as compared to the Ruger. This means even faster follow up shots and less muzzle flip; when coupled with the aforementioned trigger reset, it's no wonder why Glocks are some of the fastest shooting pistols.
Glock uses polygonal rifling which allows for a better seal and slightly increased velocity. To my knowledge, Ruger does not. IN RUGER'S favor, if standard rifling is used it's okay to shoot reloads, something not recommended at all.
Additionally in Ruger's favor, I believe that the barrel supports the area near the primer pocket on the cartridge a little better than the Glock.
Glock has tons of aftermarket support and replacement springs, firing pins, all kinds of stuff is readily available probably rivaled only by the 1911.
That's some significant reasons IMO. No reason to go what armies or teams use each weapon, as it's more a function of the shooter than the equipment.
All that said? Rugers are great handguns for the money and if handed one I'd be okay with it. Would prefer a Glock however.
peace
As to XDs, they are definitely giving Glock the push. IIRC the 45 is now being given a melonite treatment, which is the USA equivalent of Tenifer.
The biggest beef I have is that Springfield refuses to sell extra parts to consumers (AFAIK) and extra magazines are tough to come by, no .22 unit, Airsoft (that I know of) etc.
If I wanted a double stack .45ACP it would be the XD because it fits ME better than the G21, although the G21SF ("short" 4th generation frame) might give it a run for the money.
The bottom line here is that we get into such a fine area that small differences tend to be magnified apparently so the decision is easier to make. There really isn't THAT big a deal between models so long as you do your job.
The best Glocks IMO are 9mms, by a long shot. The .40 was built off of the 9mm frame so is considered underengineered by many. Interestingly, the 10mm was built off of the .45ACP frame = "over" engineered?
Beretta Model 92F 9MM
I really love the Beretta m92.
If you go to any shooting competitions, you'll see the better guns being run. Guys running literally 60-70K+ rounds a year are either shooting custom 1911's, or glocks. You're starting to see a few XD's pop up here and there though, but definitely not as common as the original combat tupperware.
I work as an FFL dealer and have for a few years now. Rugers, while reliable with low round counts (<10K, past that they start having problems), have horrible accuracy. If you ever pick up a gun rag, and read about testing done with them, they advertise 3-4" groups at 15 yards. Compare this to glocks testing 2-3" groups at 25 yards. Also, if you ever have a problem with a Ruger, you're SOL. Ruger has ZERO warranty now. Instead of a warranty card in their owners manuals, they have a little flyer explainign why they no longer have a warranty. They now follow state minimum consumer protection laws. To my knowledge, no states have such laws concerning firearms. After Bill Ruger passed away, the idiots who took over the company are trying to tear it down. Also, their DA(12-14lbs)/SA(8-10lbs) trigger system isn't that nice, and their safety system is as far out of the way on the gun as you could get it and still keep it on the gun.
Beretta's - too complicated. WAY too many internal parts that seem to attract dirt like it's their job. Compare armorers courses: Glock = 8 hours, Most 1911 courses= 2-3 days depending on how much customization work is included (general maintenance is usually roughly 2 days), Beretta - several weeks.
BTW, the original military testing performed when the US Army was looking for a 9mm had the Beretta performing dead last or failing every test they could conceive. It has gotten better since then (better quality springs), but they still have a large number of failures. I have seen several used in competition, (3 total), all three failed at some point during the season which left those operators either using another gun, or not shooting for the rest of the season. Also, the trigger is horrible in DA (14-16lbs), and not much better in SA(8-12lbs). Their safeties are again in the hardest to reach place on the gun.
Taurus- Brazilian made Beretta's. Beretta actually owned the company. Quality is pretty close to beretta guns, the finish isnt' quite as nice, but they are quite a bit cheaper than their Beretta Cousins.
Glocks - Something like 70% of US law enforcement is carrying, or authorized to carry a Glock of some flavor/model. Most popular gun for law enforcement, same trigger pull every time (standard is 6lbs, with other options readily available ). Tennifer treated steel will not rust, even with exposure to salt water. Some VERY ridiculous torture tests that would ruin most other manufacturers (go to glocktalk.com for a nasty torture test on a Glock 21, including a side by side with an H&K USP). No external safeties to operate. Accuracy wise, Chuck Taylor performed a Ransom rest test with his Generation 1 Glock 17, using Federal Hydrashocks, he was able to produce sub 1" groups at 25 yards.
While the final choice falls down to the user, and other factors need to be considered, such as ergonomics, what the owner prefers, etc, the best gun on that list is the Glock.
Edited to add:
XD's, the best of the glock clones. Great accuracy, only gripes I can come up with are: 1) the bore axis is too high, I get too much muzzle flip for fast follow up shots with factory ammo. 2) they had a lot of finish problems with the earlier guns, including their stainless models. The XD45's and all the newer ones are treated with a melonite finish, which is supposed to be the same as glock's tennifer, but from my own tinkering with them in the shops, they aren't as tough as the glock tennifer finish. Rust resistance wise, we won't know for another year or so to see how they hold up.