Blaming Dana? Your head is up you ass! FRAT


First off many posters may remember that Dana hardly has a larger critic on the UG then me. I in fact am the writer of "The "Dana led UFC fanboy troll army' derailed!" thread.

Although I have been a VERY big critic of Dana I have never denied that he done more fore MMA than anyone else in terms of bringing it into it's current global position of popularity. Moreover, unlike many posters I never said 'I know to do things better then Dana'. As the sport has grown the UFC was forced to make PIVOTAL business decisions. It is a fact that in business there are various dangers of growing a business too fast and there are many books on the topic. The UFC decided to take a more aggressive path in there business plan and hired lots of fighters in order to grow the sport. This has left many of us old time fans longing for the 'stacked cards' that we saw for instance in PRIDe. This is understandable. In addition the one variable NO SPORT is in control of is 'the amount of true stars' available that are involved in competition. The more fighters the UFC has the more 'stars' they need to 'support' the organization.

So then the UFC could have done more 'cherry picking' and kept their organization smaller and minimized their 'exposure' but they took a separate path. Even in any major sport here in the USA there are MANY games played with a marginal significance or none at all (poor teams play each other). I do NOT blame the UFC for the path they took, it does lead to both risk and consequences which I've outlined.

Yes UFC 151 was a VERY watered down card no doubt. It was supported only by a main event in which most all, at least here on the UG (save me and 1 percent of the UG - my best guess only) expected JBJ to win PERIOD. Yet without the star power of it's main event it was just not a PPV event any more. I myself am not sure why the rest of the card was not shown of FUEL for instance, it may have had to do with the cost of holding the event at the venue where it was scheduled and charging fans what they did to see the card at that venue (only a guess) and not wanting to do that.

No matter at the end of the day THE CARD WAS NOT CANCELLED BECAUSE THE MAIN EVENT WAS THE ONLY FIGHT WORTH PAYING FOR, IT WAS CANCELLED BECAUSE JBJ REFUSED TO FIGHT WITHOUT EXCEPTION!

The true issue of a fighter not taking a fight against a COMPLETELY outclassed opponent to help both his fellow fighters and the company when that fighter has a sponsorship deal to boot can not be lost in myth. Add on the fact that Sonnen had only 8 possible days of camp and said he'd GIVE HIS PURSE MONEY TO JBJ TOO. FRIGGIN BEYOND UNREAL

In conclusion, JBJ cost the fighters who need the $$$, money. He hurt the company and caused the cancellation of the UFC 151 card. Dana and the UFC ARE to blame to the degree that having chosen the business plan they did and hiring so many fighters (FEEDING THEM AND THERE FAMILIES) while knowing the amount of stars they would ever have is unknown led to the RISK of any such situation in the first place.

Nike feel smart yet?

The record has been set straight.

Cliff Notes: yes the card was terribly watered down where the rest of the fights couldnt stand on their own. However OP still thinks it is 100% jon Jones' fault.

Derp! Phone Post

UGCTT_LnPninja - 

Cliff Notes: yes the card was terribly watered down where the rest of the fights couldnt stand on their own. However OP still thinks it is 100% jon Jones' fault.

Derp! Phone Post



"Dana and the UFC ARE to blame to the degree that having chosen the business plan they did and hiring so many fighters (FEEDING THEM AND THERE FAMILIES) while knowing the amount of stars they would ever have is unknown led to the RISK of any such situation in the first place."


Oh WAR Machida!

Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_LnPninja - 

Cliff Notes: yes the card was terribly watered down where the rest of the fights couldnt stand on their own. However OP still thinks it is 100% jon Jones' fault.

Derp! Phone Post



"Dana and the UFC ARE to blame to the degree that having chosen the business plan they did and hiring so many fighters (FEEDING THEM AND THERE FAMILIES) while knowing the amount of stars they would ever have is unknown led to the RISK of any such situation in the first place."

  I can quote your OP too:



"No matter at the end of the day THE CARD WAS NOT CANCELLED BECAUSE THE MAIN EVENT WAS THE ONLY FIGHT WORTH PAYING FOR, IT WAS CANCELLED BECAUSE JBJ REFUSED TO FIGHT WITHOUT EXCEPTION!"



and from right before your quote here:



"
In conclusion, JBJ cost the fighters who need the $$$, money. He hurt the company and caused the cancellation of the UFC 151 card."





So make up your damn mind troll. Is it partially Bones and partially UFC, or ALL Jon Jones??? ;)






UGCTT_LnPninja - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_LnPninja - 

Cliff Notes: yes the card was terribly watered down where the rest of the fights couldnt stand on their own. However OP still thinks it is 100% jon Jones' fault.

Derp! Phone Post



"Dana and the UFC ARE to blame to the degree that having chosen the business plan they did and hiring so many fighters (FEEDING THEM AND THERE FAMILIES) while knowing the amount of stars they would ever have is unknown led to the RISK of any such situation in the first place."

  I can quote your OP too:



"No matter at the end of the day THE CARD WAS NOT CANCELLED BECAUSE THE MAIN EVENT WAS THE ONLY FIGHT WORTH PAYING FOR, IT WAS CANCELLED BECAUSE JBJ REFUSED TO FIGHT WITHOUT EXCEPTION!"



and from right before your quote here:



"
In conclusion, JBJ cost the fighters who need the $$$, money. He hurt the company and caused the cancellation of the UFC 151 card."





So make up your damn mind troll. Is it partially Bones and partially UFC, or ALL Jon Jones??? ;)








LnP try to understand the logic. The UFC was responsible ONLY for the business plan they made which LED to the RISK of such an occurrence in the first place. Posters such as yourself can blame them for that and hold JBJ blameless, although IMO it's ignorant.

The RISK was realized because "JBJ REFUSED TO FIGHT WITHOUT EXCEPTION!"

There is a subjective element (opinions) here. It seems black and white to me but others can disagree and have. They blame Dana for using the business plan the UFC has used. Most know that. I don't sit on that high horse.

Not according to OP. read the post. Phone Post

This is going to be a polarizing issue, as the number of threads on the UG demonstrate.

The anti-zuffa crowd is just going to put all the blame on Dana, and use the "he's the champ, he can do what he wants" arguement they always used with Fedor.

The Pro-Zuffa crowd is just going to trash Jones constantly, and defend Dana.

The truth is a lot of both.

I think there are two major precedents here with some blame on both sides.


1. Don't make the cards so anemic that there is no interest without the main event. This is also a disservice to the rest of the fighters on the undercard and the fans. Make people want to watch the entire card.

That being said, a big Fuck You goes out to all the fans that trash undercard fighters just because they don't recognize their names. Learn something. Look into the background of the up and coming fighters, learn about them, watch some of their previous fights on youtube...maybe you will find something you like instead of just spouting of "Blerrgg...b-level fighters....derpy derp...Should be on Fuel....blarrg..."

But I digress, back to the topic...


2. The champion is supposed to fight and defend his belt against all comers.

ALL COMERS.

Yes, the main event fell through. It's a shit situation. Chael is not someone JBJ or Greg Jackson were prepared to fight, or wanted to fight. Too bad. Your responsibility is to defend your title, and you do have an obligation to the fans. What Jones did is the exact opposite of that.

A true fighter would have said "Ok, cool...now i get to Knock out Chael Sonnen. Perfect."

Not, "I only have 8 days, I havent had time to Study my opponent and create a Gameplan. I have to make a business decision to protect my brand."

Sorry, but that outlook and line of thinking is going to lose you fans, not gain them, and hurt your "Brand".
Maybe this is a Jackson concept. When Rashad was still at Jacksons, he did a lot of talking about "his brand" as well.
Interesting.

When it all comes down to it, Jones is supposed to be one of the best fighters in the sport. He is one of the most visible Champions in all of MMA. His sponsor's motto is "Just Do It".

The fact that he was willing to tank an event, risk being called a ducker, and earn so much bad publicity to avoid a middleweight coming off a loss, who did not have a training camp and would have a week to prepare is shocking. Really Shocking to me, actually.


SO, Dana! Make more compelling cards! Jones! Be a fighter, not a businessman! I could care less about your brand.

who would you have put on the card which would have saved it?  let's say machida/bader was the co main event.  Jones wasnt gonna fight anyone on 8 days notice so you would have machida vs bader as the main event.



even if the card was more stacked it would have tanked in ppv buys without the main event.  Zuffa cannot afford another dismal ppv event.  the past 2 months we have seen ppv buy rates and gate receipts tank.   People would now be bitching about a machida/bader ppv.... ticket holders would be complaiging that they got screwed, etc...



the show had to be cancelled... they need to restructure a bunch of stuff because if zuffa doesnt bring back any type of consistentcy to the product people will stop buying tickets as we are seeing now.



ppv's need 2 title fights and lower end contenders on the undercard from those title fight divisions so they can step up incase there's an injury (ala mir/jds).





 

 ^^^^ Great post CR, but this part seems to not be factual:



"The fact that he was willing to tank an event, risk being called a ducker, and earn so much bad publicity to avoid a middleweight coming off a loss, who did not have a training camp and would have a week to prepare is shocking. Really Shocking to me, actually."



I believe Jackson when he says they did not think that Zuffa would cancel the whole event or they would have rethought the decision. Seems like Dana kept them in the dark about that part until it ws announced. 



Still VTFU for a quality post.



Chimonos well I'm not either, what's correct is correct. No one nor organization is perfect; therefore, sometimes both are incorrect. Either way your a good poster and I respect your opinion! I do think the OP is worth a vote up by you and posters in general because it is what it is per this post and the original post.

So far this thread has business analysis from someone who has never run a business, and an explanation of how to be a "true fighter" from someone who has never fought.

Keep going, UG!

UGCTT_LnPninja -  ^^^^ Great post CR, but this part seems to not be factual:



"The fact that he was willing to tank an event, risk being called a ducker, and earn so much bad publicity to avoid a middleweight coming off a loss, who did not have a training camp and would have a week to prepare is shocking. Really Shocking to me, actually."



I believe Jackson when he says they did not think that Zuffa would cancel the whole event or they would have rethought the decision. Seems like Dana kept them in the dark about that part until it ws announced. 



Still VTFU for a quality post.



I say this because Jones knew before he refused to fight Chael, that the event would be cancelled if he did not take the fight.

B_Goetz - So far this thread has business analysis from someone who has never run a business, and an explanation of how to be a "true fighter" from someone who has never fought.

Keep going, UG!


0/10 which can be proven with an 800 number and people who saw me fight. If you get a Mod to PM me I'll be happy to supply him with the 800 number and staff will put me on the line. Ignorance is bliss. The post however is irrelevant.

THIS IS ISSUE WITH THE UG. Address the argument being made NOT the person making it! The argument is either valid or no. It either uses sound logic or no. Another dumb ass UG POST.

Warzone209 - Take Henderson vs Jones off UFC 151 and you have Strikeforce Challengers....Truly Joe Silva and Dana are not to blame for this watered down dogshit abomination of a card.

I'm sure the rest of the fighters on the card are happy to know they have your support.


LOL Chimonos

[blockquote]I say this because Jones knew before he refused to fight Chael, that the event would be cancelled if he did not take the fight.[/blockquote]
Did he? Source? Dana says lots of shit that's not true - he's a scumbag promoter.

Greg Jackson said he didn't know the UFC would cancel the card. He's a slimey trainer trying to protect his gravy train.

Hendo hurt his knee probably a week or two ago and didn't tell the UFC (or maybe he did) - probably around the same time that his teammate Sonnen took to twitter to try an talk his way into a title shot he didn't deserve.

There's a lot bullshit floating around. However, the one unavoidable fact is that the card, for a major holiday weekend, was incredibly weak outside of the main event and couldn't stand on its own. That's on Dana. He's the one that's always said that the PPVs were about the UFC events and not individual fighters and he'd never make cards like Pro boxing does.

Chimonos Revenge - This is going to be a polarizing issue, as the number of threads on the UG demonstrate.

The anti-zuffa crowd is just going to put all the blame on Dana, and use the "he's the champ, he can do what he wants" arguement they always used with Fedor.

The Pro-Zuffa crowd is just going to trash Jones constantly, and defend Dana.

The truth is a lot of both.

I think there are two major precedents here with some blame on both sides.


1. Don't make the cards so anemic that there is no interest without the main event. This is also a disservice to the rest of the fighters on the undercard and the fans. Make people want to watch the entire card.

That being said, a big Fuck You goes out to all the fans that trash undercard fighters just because they don't recognize their names. Learn something. Look into the background of the up and coming fighters, learn about them, watch some of their previous fights on youtube...maybe you will find something you like instead of just spouting of "Blerrgg...b-level fighters....derpy derp...Should be on Fuel....blarrg..."

But I digress, back to the topic...


2. The champion is supposed to fight and defend his belt against all comers.

ALL COMERS.

Yes, the main event fell through. It's a shit situation. Chael is not someone JBJ or Greg Jackson were prepared to fight, or wanted to fight. Too bad. Your responsibility is to defend your title, and you do have an obligation to the fans. What Jones did is the exact opposite of that.

A true fighter would have said "Ok, cool...now i get to Knock out Chael Sonnen. Perfect."

Not, "I only have 8 days, I havent had time to Study my opponent and create a Gameplan. I have to make a business decision to protect my brand."

Sorry, but that outlook and line of thinking is going to lose you fans, not gain them, and hurt your "Brand".
Maybe this is a Jackson concept. When Rashad was still at Jacksons, he did a lot of talking about "his brand" as well.
Interesting.

When it all comes down to it, Jones is supposed to be one of the best fighters in the sport. He is one of the most visible Champions in all of MMA. His sponsor's motto is "Just Do It".

The fact that he was willing to tank an event, risk being called a ducker, and earn so much bad publicity to avoid a middleweight coming off a loss, who did not have a training camp and would have a week to prepare is shocking. Really Shocking to me, actually.


SO, Dana! Make more compelling cards! Jones! Be a fighter, not a businessman! I could care less about your brand.

Voted up, CR.

In the end I think it's pretty simple: in the long-term, Zuffa's strategy of putting on watered down cards is biting them in the ass. But, in this instance, we can say the card would not have been cancelled if Jones accepted the fight. Maybe he was in his personal rights to turn the fight down. But it's not what the great champions would have done.


wiggum that is my same argument made in the original post.

Lazer MMA - 
B_Goetz - So far this thread has business analysis from someone who has never run a business, and an explanation of how to be a "true fighter" from someone who has never fought.

Keep going, UG!


0/10 which can be proven with an 800 number and people who saw me fight. If you get a Mod to PM me I'll be happy to supply him with the 800 number and staff will put me on the line. Ignorance is bliss. The post however is irrelevant.

THIS IS ISSUE WITH THE UG. Address the argument being made NOT the person making it! The argument is either valid or no. It either uses sound logic or no. Another dumb ass UG POST.

You were the guy offering your business insights. Someone else was offering their insights about how to be a "true fighter," since they know better than Jon Jones how to do that. I'm really just having a laugh at how many people speak so authoritatively on here, when we're all just speculating as outsiders.

Fair point, though. I'll address your argument.

If you're a fight promoter, and your fighters meet all the contractual obligations you've set out for them, and your event still falls apart, you're the problem.

There are at least two specific problems here. First, there is only a tiny number of fighters in the whole organization who are capable of carrying a PPV. With the number of cards per year being so high, the UFC has lost some negotiating leverage. Jones has the power to decline this fight, make Dana White furious with him, and take a different match up at his convenience just three weeks later. If they didn't have so many cards to fill, and if they didn't need him so desperately, they could threaten to sit Jones out for six months and then give him the Sonnen match up again. As it stands, Jones has the upper hand in negotiations.

Secondly, the pay structure (with champions receiving a cut of the PPV) incentivises extreme caution for the champions. A loss means a severe reduction in pay, so they fight conservatively, and in this case Jones turned down a match up because his preparation was not perfectly optimal. He will lose some money by postponing fighting, but he stood to lose much, much more if he lost his title. If the solution to this were obvious, it would already have been fixed. I don't know exactly what the solution should be.

Anyway, that's my two cents.