So dumb
Yeah that was a brutal finish…
Purely a theoretical question, but for the tactical population, is it better for guys to not drill leg attacks at all? As in you wouldn’t want your guys to develop bad habits for when it gets “real” in a house or on the street? Probably a dumb question buddy, so my apologies.
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I don’t think it reflects badly on John or garry at all. I think garry just did what he trained himself to do and made a mistake going for the outside heel hook at the end of his sequence. That outside heel hook is a very risky proposition. Garry is very smart and a tremendous competitor. He won’t make the same mistake again.
I used to work out with an extremely good black belt who was very successful in mma. When he would attack the legs he would only try one leg attack and he would never stay on the leg looking for a submission if he didn’t get it on the first attempt. I believe garry will make a similar adjustment.
Thanh le showed up extremely prepared for what garry was going to do in that fight. I think le deserved credit for showing up so well prepared rather than saying garry wasn’t prepared.
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I admittedly am probably paying far too much attention to this. However, I find it utterly fascinating that John is an expert striker. I just can’t wrap my head around it. I vaguely remember someone mentioning on here that he was also incredibly talented at kali and blade work? Not sure how true it is…
From what you can recall, what did the MMA drills look like? And what boxer did John admire most and want his guys to emulate in their fights?
I was always under the impression the Muay Thai program at the main academy was…lacking.
I don’t think it’s a dumb question. I have had the exact same thoughts for many years.
I believe that you can’t become such a specialist with the legs attacks that when you are completely exhausted or hurt you immediately start looking for the heel. I think that will lead to problems.
But as someone who resisted learning them and regrets it, you can’t truly understand the defense and how to defend your legs until you understand the offense.
I think the entry into the legs at very least gives you an excellent chance to stand back up or sweep in an mma fight.
I think learning how to attack the legs will make your leg pummeling infinitely better and improve your defense from the bottom. A powerful opponent may not feel as comfortable postering up and pounding your face when they are on top of they feel you can at least threaten their heel.
I just think you can’t get good enough at legs that you are looking for them as a quick finish. If you are looking for a heel in order to end the fight quickly it’s a mistake. You have the wrong mentality going into a fight if you are trying to submit the guy quick and go home. Fighting isn’t that easy
I think of BJJ as being similar to many aspects of Muay Thai. A lot of it is useless in mma but you still need to know how to defend it and you don’t know what will work for you until you master it. Then you can get rid of what doesn’t work for you or what isn’t practical for mma
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I don’t know if I agree with this logic. We’ve seen a ton of people get KO’d after failed armlocks, triangles, ect.
Leg locks fit into MMA. We just don’t know exactly how yet I don’t think.
We’ve seen Palhares use outside ashi positioning against great fighters.
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i saw ur post on leglocks I havent trained in years but Matt Serra and his teachers taught leglocks and escapes But he always stressed to be careful using them We were allowed to use them in rolling but if matt or a teacher saw u doing it he would always say easyyyy or be careful.Most good leglockers were very careful But I agree they can be very dangerous but the guys I rolled with were always careful That said i have seen 1 or 2 injuries happen
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True but when someone like belcher prepared correctly to defend his legs he stopped palhares with punches. Belcher worked with Dean lister and Robert drysdale in learning how to defend his heel in order to get ready for palhares.
Until someone wins a world title exclusively attacking heel hooks I will never be sold of them completely. Khabib’s system of takedowns, top pressure and punishment will beat anyone in the world. Until I see someone submit everyone in route to a UFC title I don’t see how anyone can make heel hooks the primary focus in their training
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I used to see that prick hurt one to two people per class
who ? i could be wrong but i dont think white belts were allowed to use leglocks Maybe purple and up ? i was decent at them but was scared to hurt someone so if i got one id be very careful .Luckilly i was never hurt nor did i hurt anyone .I would avoid spazzy guys at all costs
The drills John ran were kind of like Dutch drills except they mixed takedowns in.
He would show how to catch kicks for takedowns.
How to feint and create openings with feints and punch to the openings.
How to catch the guy with head kicks when exits a punching exchange.
How to time takedowns when the guy comes forward hard
It was really good stuff.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if John knew knife fighting. He liked knives. He is a really interesting guy.
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You are correct. The only leg stuff we really do are 2 on 1 scenarios where the second guy will control or lace the legs while the first guy controls the upper body. Not a dumb question at all.
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Yeah I don’t think we’ll ever see someone win a world title with them exclusively. But I do think we’ll see people use them in certain spots, particularly the guard attacks against standing opponents.
I think the days of giving up top position for leg locks are over in MMA. We’ll probably see them used as parts of sweeps mostly to try to force defensive reactions
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Edit
I agree completely
I’m actually curious to go watch an advanced division when a tournament is around here. I guess I agree with the Brazilian mentality of leg locks being a cheap way to win. I guess the Brazilians never really liked and put much emphasis on them because they knew that when punches in the face are involved, heel hooks are extremely risky
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I don’t know the exact history, but I know that there is tell that the reasons the Gracie’s didn’t like them is because Fadda’s guys tapped them with footlocks. I’m sure that’s not the only reason the traditional crowd doesn’t like it but I’d guess it’s a non trivial part.
The other thing is, the leg lock positions vary wildly in how susceptible you are to punches. The inside positions (slx and cross ashi/inside sankaku) are pretty safe in MMA. Cross ashi with the second leg controlled is really really safe and controlling.
But 50/50 and DOA are very risky. It’s much more of a race there to try to break someone before they ko you
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renzo serra and almieda all teach leglocks and are excellent at them
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I don’t think anyone says they can’t be effective. But when you suck at everything, you can’t do takedowns, you can’t defend takedowns, have a shitty guard, can’t pass someone’s guard and are just trying to go for heel hooks as a shitty blue belt it doesn’t make sense to just pull guard and go for heel hooks. They are not the foundational piece of jiu-jitsu
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ive found most guys who go for leglocks are experienced guys not beginners.If ur not good at the fundementals most arent good at leglocks as well and easy to defend if your a higher belt
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