You guys ever heard of a brown belt awarded by internet/video? Never bern in the same hemisphere let alone country as the student but gives a brown belt?
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Uh oh
Spill them beans bro
Isn't Roy Harris doing something like this.?
In
LOL. I dunno who this is, but I try not to judge without knowing all the facts and circumstances. Plus, I have enough problems on my own trying to progress in jiu jitsu, much less worry about what other people are doing...
Hope not
*grabs pitchfork
Is this the same story from a couple years ago? Roy Harris toyed with the idea of supervising tests by skype - because he has strict exam criteria and he's been giving the tests long enough that he knows exactly what he's looking for. He never said it would be for people he's never met - just that he wouldn't have to fly out in person to watch the test if he could see it remotely.
He's never actually DONE a test this way, but he put something out saying he was open to it, and bjjee went on a crusade. He was actually amused by all the attention it got.
It's slightly funny to me how many people think that, say, a lower belt can learn stuff by watching it in a DVD or online video, but don't think a 6th degree black belt can tell how well you're performing something by watching you do it.
It's even funnier when you consider how many people got belts with no particular criteria at all. "You're a blue belt now." Ok, why?
I think Roy's tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool. Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know. However, the longer I'm in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform. You can't get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together.
Hey guys, got caught up. Will post details soon and see what you think. Cheers
Hey Beer Man -I think Roy's tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool. Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know. However, the longer I'm in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform. You can't get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together.
HBM,
I think you and I agree. To be clear, the only one of Roy's tests that is about "knowing techniques" is the blue exam...and it also has some live rounds of sparring.
ALL the other tests are live rounds, not techniques. For example, my brown exam was 9 (live) rounds each of mount escapes, side escapes, north-south escapes, scarf hold escapes, headlock escapes, knee on belly escapes, defending the guard against a pass, passing the guard, holding the side, and mount. In the rounds where I had the dominant position, he would start a countdown ("Ten, nine, eight...") and I had to finish in that time. Then we had 3 ten minute sparring rounds. I had 32 partners in rotation including 4 black belts.
I would make the argument that he could have supervised my test remotely if he wanted to.
I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent. Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice. Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.
I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out. But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.
I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.
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twinkletoesCT -Is this the same story from a couple years ago? Roy Harris toyed with the idea of supervising tests by skype - because he has strict exam criteria and he's been giving the tests long enough that he knows exactly what he's looking for. He never said it would be for people he's never met - just that he wouldn't have to fly out in person to watch the test if he could see it remotely.
He's never actually DONE a test this way, but he put something out saying he was open to it, and bjjee went on a crusade. He was actually amused by all the attention it got.
It's slightly funny to me how many people think that, say, a lower belt can learn stuff by watching it in a DVD or online video, but don't think a 6th degree black belt can tell how well you're performing something by watching you do it.
It's even funnier when you consider how many people got belts with no particular criteria at all. "You're a blue belt now." Ok, why?
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GenericAmerican -I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent. Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice. Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.
I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out. But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.
I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.
I feel you on this one. I came from TMAs into BJJ in the 90s.
But also, BJJ already has plennnnnty of problems with ranks and legitimacy. Aren't we long overdue, as a community, for a real talk about what the standards are for each rank? Can we decide on those WITHOUT saying (a) a black belt "just knows" when you're ready, or (b) you're ready for ____ when you "hang with other ____ belts"? Because both of those are entirely devoid of real meaning. On the other hand, saying "a brown belt should be able to escape from the mount against partners of varying sizes and experiences levels, without using his or her hands" actually communicates an expectation.
If we could arrive at clear standards, even if they vary by organization (or whatever), then the method of carrying out an evaluation becomes less important.
GenericAmerican -I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent. Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice. Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.
I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out. But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.
I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.
Well said
twinkletoesCT -Hey Beer Man -I think Roy's tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool. Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know. However, the longer I'm in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform. You can't get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together.
HBM,
I think you and I agree. To be clear, the only one of Roy's tests that is about "knowing techniques" is the blue exam...and it also has some live rounds of sparring.
ALL the other tests are live rounds, not techniques. For example, my brown exam was 9 (live) rounds each of mount escapes, side escapes, north-south escapes, scarf hold escapes, headlock escapes, knee on belly escapes, defending the guard against a pass, passing the guard, holding the side, and mount. In the rounds where I had the dominant position, he would start a countdown ("Ten, nine, eight...") and I had to finish in that time. Then we had 3 ten minute sparring rounds. I had 32 partners in rotation including 4 black belts.
I would make the argument that he could have supervised my test remotely if he wanted to.
Roy's tests certainly seem rigorous and you might be right that it is time to codify the standards of each belt level. However, it is one thing to observe a student you know well remotely and another thing to observe remotely a student that the professor has never had first hand on the mat knowledge of. If you are going to codify what a student should know before getting a belt could the same be said about the professor? Should they know something about their student before belting them?
I got a temporary brown belt from the Shendokan, but didn't receive the official rank certificate because they claim I did not send in my fourth installment of $499.00 but I got the screen shot of my online account being charged. It's not my fault that the Shendokan's money is floating in cyberspace somewhere. I'm trying to get a petition signed for them to just award me the rank already. I'll be circulating a flyer soon.
Robobear -I got a temporary brown belt from the Shendokan, but didn't receive the official rank certificate because they claim I did not send in my fourth installment of $499.00 but I got the screen shot of my online account being charged. It's not my fault that the Shendokan's money is floating in cyberspace somewhere. I'm trying to get a petition signed for them to just award me the rank already. I'll be circulating a flyer soon.
We are switching over to ONLY deal in a brand new type of cryptocurrency called "Shencoin"
This information was tweeted to you.
with the access to LEGIT schools now there is no reason someone needs to do online testing unless you just dont want to put the work in. i'll die on that hill.
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