Any advise when how to not get caught in t the guillotine when you shoot? I don´t shoot very much from standing but I often get caught in it when I´m trying to do a doubble leg kind of move from sitting up guard and my opponent standing up. Any advise how to not get caught?
/Vic
look in the saved thread "how to shoot without getting choke"
Thanks Andrew Yao, exactly what I was looking for.
/Vic
same mechanics as a proper wrestling shot, head up back straight, elbows in.
Also, think about the mechanics of the guillotine choke. How does one finish the guillotine? By putting you into their closed guard, right? So when you shoot and you feel the guillotine coming, you have to make it your top priority to go around his legs. (Yeah, you have to become a better guard passer). Guillotine from under the side mount shouldn't be a problem to escape from.
If I shoot with back straight and head up does that mean that I can´t do the type of takedown where you just drive through him? Do I need to allways turn the corner instead?
/Vic
Your drive comes from your legs and your body momentum, not from the fact that you're bent over. So you can drive through him with a straight back and head up. Your shoulder rams into him and makes him fall.
But work on turning the corner finishes as well, as sprawling and guillotining you are two of the most common forms of resistance/counters there are against leg attacks. Turning the corner is a good way to prevent or minimize both of these counters because he has to pull you in his guard for the guillotine and by turning the corner you help yourself get around his legs a bit, AND if he sprawls he makes it hard for you to drive him back (as his legs brace against it) but then his base to the sides isn't as good.
Easier said than done, though :)
Thanks jonpall, I´ll try that.
/Vic
What do you think about the kind of takedown where just put your forehead in his belly, hands at the bent of the knees and drive through him. I saw Frank Shamrock teach this at a seminar tape. He said it was the only takedown he ever uses any more.
/Vic
I believe that this type of head position, i.e. forehead in belly or ribs, is much more commonly used for single leg attacks than double leg attacks. One of the reasons is to protect your neck from injury.
Frank did that on the doubble.
/Vic
Yeah, I think that the exact question was asked on the wrestling forum and the then answer was "then Frank is doing it wrong". Plain and simple. I might be wrong, though. Also, note that even though the guillotine danger might theoretically be a little less if you "spear" him in the guts with your forehead this way, you are playing a form of Russian rullette with your neck. But the wrestlers and other good forum members might be able to explain it better. This is just my recollection of all this.
"What do you think about the kind of takedown where just put your forehead in his belly, hands at the bent of the knees and drive through him."
who am I to say Frank is wrong but at the same time, in wrestling this is bad technique for a driving shot like doubles because you can really crack your neck. It is great for pick up singles,etc...in a pick up single this is where your head should be (chest), on doubles, your head should be on the outside, head up up with your ear tight to their torso, elbows in and back straight..If they per-chance get guillotine anyway, you are in great posistion to lift and slam them hughes style....
Yeah, when you ram your head in their ribs (not as hard as you can, though, to avoid injury) you don't do it to throw them backwards to the ground. You do it to make them tilt backwards just a bit, so their leg has to come forwards and up a bit, and to get them off balance. With doubles, you don't really need to pick a leg up to your chest as you do with singles. You would be more likely to lift one of the legs out to the side with doubles, like if you're turning the corner.
Think about it, if you want to lift a leg, i.e. make his knee go in one direction, making his upper body go in the opposite direction will help, because people cannot bend the same way as GI Joe :) Your head can help his body to bend.
So if you want to turn the corner with a double, you usually want to lift the leg that's on the same side as your head out to the side. To help you, you make his body go in the opposite direction AND THEN IT'S BEST TO HAVE YOUR HEAD ON THE OUTSIDE, pushing on the side of his body.
To make his knee come up and forwards to your chest in a single leg attack, it really helps to make his upper body bend directly backwards (as opposed to the side as with a double). SO THEN YOUR HEAD REALLY HAS TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF HIM.
Do you see where I'm going?
Thanks MitsuyoMaeda and jonpall. All that seems to make sense. I´m gonna try to ask on the wrestlingforum as well.
/Vic
I think I know the position you're talking about. I've seen it when people stand up in the half or open guard and you sit up. There are a lot of sweeps from this position for the sitting guy, but if you're not looking out you can get caught in a guillitine. I don't think the guillitine is a particularly advanced move from there, but . . .
The key in bjj seems to be to control the sleeves of the standing guy. If you control at least sleeve (in bjj), you basically prevent the move. Also, if you keep your head on the inside of his legs, you will make the guillitine much harder.
You don't necessarily need to control the sleeves of your opponent to prevent a guillotine, although it can help. Note that some guys are so strong that they can guillotine a weaker guy with only one arm.
You can also, f.ex., prevent a guillotine with just your head positioning, like putting your forehead in the side of his neck and perhaps getting an underhook on that side. He has to get your head on the side of his ribs to guillotine you. If you have a superior head positioning like putting your forehead in the side of his neck and also have superior arm control like the underhook, not to mention if you can stand to his side and not in front of him, he will not guillotine you quite yet.