I feel that we could more fully come together "in this forum" under a different acronym, such as BLLMA (BL Lineage MA)or BLIMA (BL Inspired MA)...
This takes off the pressure of defining what it is and being open to others expression from the lineage and/or inspiration of BL...
Mark Stewart
(moved from Why JKD?)
Why not JKD? I think it's a great name to describe the process of someone learning (many) martial arts and forming their own way of doing it. In the end, isn't that what everyone here does, be it with whatever training methods or styles.
Membrane,
"Why not JKD? I think it's a great name to describe the process of someone learning (many) martial arts and forming their own way of doing it. In the end, isn't that what everyone here does, be it with whatever training methods or styles."
This approach (r&d) has been going on way before BL. BL used this approach to create "way of the intercepting fist"...
If this is the philosophy of JKD there is also a physical model (framework) that goes along with it. To divorce BL's model of JKD from JKD is to change its name.
However, if one is inspired by BL because of BL, then change the acronym.
Mark
Mark
Ok, that's a good way of putting it. I still don't really see any reason for a name change for the forum, but I understand where you are coming from.
"If this is the philosophy of JKD there is also a physical model (framework) that goes along with it. To divorce BL's model of JKD from JKD is to change its name."
Can you (or someone) go into more detail as to what you mean by this statement. Do you suggest that one can't do JKD with the physical framework of Jun Fan? If this is what you are saying, I don't feel that this is philosophically of practically true, but I'd like to have a better understanding of where you're coming from. Thanks.
C.J.
I think it's easiest to think of JKD as a method of training.
Some opinion: JKD is more than the idea of mixing martial experiences. It contains certain ideas (5 methods of attack), interception, etc. that are a part of JKD.
More opinion: I think the the solutions that Bruce Lee found and presented, generally referred to as Jun Fan Kungfu/kickboxing, are examples of HIS personal JKD. Those are the techniques that he observed working best for himself and his students, under the training method of JKD.
~TT
PS - "BLIMA" sounds funny. Hee hee!
But what about ASAX?
Calbert,
"Can you (or someone) go into more detail as to what you mean by this statement. Do you suggest that one can't do JKD with the physical framework of Jun Fan?
Jeet/Interception can and is done by many systems/fighters and is not limited to JKD. Interception is the strategical ideal that JKD is built around/under. However, there is also specific structure(s), tactics and teaching progression that supports the ideal, which makes JKD uniquely JKD and quite different than Jun Fan Gung Fu.
"If this is what you are saying, I don't feel that this is philosophically of practically true, but I'd like to have a better understanding of where you're coming from."
The top of the "JKD Pyramid" model is the ability to perceive, create and control the distance that allows for hitting the opponent, with the least chance of being hit back. This is very challenging and of course impossible to use effectively at all times. This strategy is also supported by other tatics. However, these tactics are highly influenced by the strategical ideal. Thus the tactics and subsequent techniques, would be a bit different than methods that do not share the strategical ideal. This is why at long range JKD may resemble fencing and at close range may resemble boxing. With that said JKD is not fencing or boxing.
BL's paradigm shift away from the earlier model was his elimination of "touch reference" as a bridge to striking. In JKD, pro-active touch reference is the strike itself. The earlier model was highly wing chun influenced. Does this mean that there will be no touch other than the strike itself? Of course not. The JKD model is a system that stresses adaptability. The "water principle" reference, made by BL is not limited to philosophy, it is physics in action.
Am I saying that there is no wing chun in JKD? No I am not. In my opinion, it just doesn't resemble it. Many of BL's ideas may have their root in WC but may also be shared in boxing and fencing...
Mark Stewart
Isn't BLLMA -OJKD? Isn't BLIMA - JKDC?
Ok Mark, forgive me cus' I'm a little slow over the internet, but I'm just trying to understand. Are you saying that once Bruce Lee organized his thoughts on the principles and ideals that make up JKD, all other structures, tactics, and teaching progression thereafter that support those principles and ideals are seperate from the previous Jun Fan Gung Fu? If this is what you are saying, where does Jun Fan Gung Fu fit into the overall scheme of things for you? Thanks!
C.J.
TTT
Good question Calbert.
Calbert,
"Are you saying that once Bruce Lee organized his thoughts on the principles and ideals that make up JKD, all other structures, tactics, and teaching progression thereafter that support those principles and ideals are seperate from the previous Jun Fan Gung Fu?"
It depends on your definition of Jun Fan Gung Fu and who you were taught by. Most of what I have seen contains added wing chun, panantukan drills and muay thai. Is this the Jun Fan Gung Fu that you speak of?
If this is what you are saying, where does Jun Fan Gung Fu fit into the overall scheme of things for you?
In its purest form as passed from BL, it serves as a historic understanding of BL's progression towards JKD.
Mark