Has anyone read this book? If so, would you say that this is legit San Shou throwing? Thanks.
I have this book, but I've never trained in San Shou.
Lautaro
get a typical Judo book, it has anywhere from 25 to 60 throws in it, in competition you maybe see 4 or 5 used consistently and with effectiveness. Same for this book, it has some of the throws that are used a lot of the times, the rest is for the most part "filler" or "the art" so to speak
Thanks.
Out of curiosity I bought that book awhile back. A lot of the throws content seems pretty much along the lines of judo. Most of the basic practical stuff seems pretty similar to judo. A lot of the other techniques seem pretty far-fetched. I think its a good book to give you an idea about the art of Chinese Wrestling, and it may even have some useful stuff for self defense. But if you are looking for knowledge to greatly enhance your MMA ability, don't bother.
Most books don't give you concrete practical examples of how to apply stuff, I cited Judo as a the classic reference. Heck, even some of the early BJJ videos were very much "here is a technique" with no context.
i have a jkd book, entering to trapping to grappling.
it has pretty good stuff. but towards the end it gets kinda cocky & you see the old wwf style holds. like the boston crab. over all it's not bad, i like the trapping it works great against my sparring partner(who only knows boxing) so it's worth the 15$
The peope who wrote the JKD book you are referring to studied a lot with Gene LeBell and so you see "pro wrestling" stuff in there of course, but that being said a half Boston crab (one leg) is quite useful and practical if you know the set ups...
I always smile when people deride the pro-wrestling moves. I had a friend who was so big, strong and athletic that he was able to actually use those pro-wrestling moves for real.
I've even seen him almost do a pile driver in a fight. I say almost because the guy he was holding on to realized he was about to be pile-driven on the concrete sidewalk and pleaded for mercy, which he received. I've also seen him put people (including myself) in the Razor's Edge. He was just so freaking strong that he could get away with that sort of thing. He was also a very good boxer and (amateur) wrestler.
I have no doubt that if Hunter Hearst Helmsley wanted to fight some 98pd weakling with nothing but wrestling moves, he'd have no trouble whatsoever. Would it work on Mark Coleman? Not bloody likely, but the point is that these moves CAN work in the right circumstances.
Lautaro
yea im not doubting it. but for normal joes like me they won't work maybe like a front headlock or sometype of hold but noway in hell can i get someone in a razors edge.
lautaro,
So basically, you can use professional wrestling moves successfully against people that you could have wiped out like a rag doll anyhow? Gee, pretty useful stuff. I better work on my figure-four-leglock, DDT, and Boston Crab in case I get jumped by a five year old kid.
A 280 pound guy that is strong as hell could probably beat the shit out of some 80 pound weakling with Tai Chi if he wanted to.
Hell, if your friend's that much of a monster then he can beat the crap out of someone any way he wants to. As for me, I'm 155 lbs. I can be the best Muay thai fighter in my division and he might still be able to knock me out with a backhand. Or if he's really feeling humorous then he could send me through a godd@mn wall with that crane move from Karate Kid. Doesn't make it a practical fighting technique. A lot of those WWF holds do hurt. But then so do pressure points if you just sit there and let the hapkido black belt do them on you. So I won't be trying no Stone Cold stunners anytime soon.
It seems you guys have missed the point of what I was saying. I was explaining that pro-wrestling moves COULD be used. I never said they SHOULD be used or that they were the best option in combat. I was merely illustrating that the implication that pro-wrestling moves don't work is a fallacy. The fact of the matter is that pro-wrestling moves CAN work under the right circumstances.
This same principle can be applied to just about anything really. For example, there are those who have said that high kicks don't work on the street. This isn't actually true. A good high kick to the head can most certainly render a person unconscious. Therefore, high kicks DO work.
Is it advisable to use a high kick on the street? Perhaps not, but I would say it depends more on the individual doing the kick, the environment he's in, the person he's kicking, how much force he wants to inflict on his target, etc. There are always many variables to take into account when determining these things so there is never an "always correct" answer.
Going back to the pro-wrestling moves, it obviously wouldn't be the best option to learn for smaller, weaker individuals who are likely to face bigger, stronger opponents. But if you're built like Matt Hughs, Mark Coleman or Dan Severn, you can inflict all kinds of punishment on a person with a well-placed pile-driver, ddt, suplex, pick-up-and-slam, etc. As mentioned, a person that big and strong could also get away with just about anything they want if they do it properly, which is why so much emphasis is placed on strength, conditioning, flexibility, toughness, etc when training for a fight.
Lautaro
do you guys remember one of the early UFC's when Dan Severn suplexed that guy twice in a row? That looked like WWF stuff, but I bet that other didnt think it was fake.
It's also fairly common amatuer wrestling move, done by a guy with a big weight advantage.
I seem to recall Cung Le doing this to several
opponents he's fought too. Certainly looks unpleasent
for the guy on the receiving end.