"Exactly what I meant. Even if a double-leg doesn't always land, the likelihood of it landing you on your back with the opponent in side mount, or giving up your back as a result of a failed attempt, is very low. Not that this is a Judo vs. Wrestling thing, I know guys who've been wrestling for years that keep on going for the damn head and arm. Maybe one day they'll learn."
I don't think that's entirely true. It depends on the defense and tendancies of the person you're up against. A big failed shot can be just as dangerous as a throw sometimes. If the defender is a grappler by nature, they can turn your shot into their front head lock and possibly take your back, or worse, a guillotine and an instant win.
Most of the examples on this thread are grappler vs striker, but imagine if chuck was a grappler. He'd sprawl just the same, but then take a back or guillotine.
All high commitment takedowns are dangerous in nature. It's the individual matchup that makes the difference.
Yeah, but you can in MMA and there are no such things as guys who have only done greco all their lives (Couture et al have all done free or folkstyle).
you guys have to get it out of your heads that everytime someone shoots a double, they are doing wrestling, everytime someone throws someone, its judo, everytime an armlock is attempted, its bjj.
clinch tds and leg attacks are done in all grappling styles. Why do people assume freestyle is all leg shoots and they cant or havent taken anyone down from the clinch before and/or only greco wrestlers work the clinch? Is Hughes a Greco guy?
For the Tito/Chuck, Fedor/Hunt fights, thats one isolated comparison. What about Kos taking down Joslin at will with his wrestling/doubles? Coleman couldnt get CC down but Fedor could but its the matchup that counts. GSP took Karo down with leg attacks. Aurelio took Gomi down with a double en route to a sub. Ishida took Aurelio repeatedly down with double. Kawajiri and Melendez both exchanged countless doubles throughout that match and both have great td defense as well.
Tito has probably been more effective with his clinch tds than shoots, how many times has he toppled foes from his trademark double-underhooks?
Chuck happens to have perhaps the best td defense in the sport while Hunt obvioiusly does not.
Doubles will always be one of the primary tds for MMA because you clinching tds usually have to be worked on more, a shoot, though it has to be set up are usu. much quicker way
"3) Most wrestlers lack effective set-ups in the MMA arena owing to weak striking skills"
Really? Every single wrestlers that has excelled in MMA (top 10 or greater) has had to work on their striking to set up their tds. I mean, isnt that one of the first things they work on? And for purpose of setting up a td, i dont think you have to be a great or even good striker at all, you just have to get used to the range (which you mentioned) and using good fakes to distract the opponent.
Course, it helps if you are a better striker but considering how many wrestlers have went to the top of this sport, they must have had descent striking setups for their tds.
Of course, just because someone failed to td Chuck or CC doesnt mean anything really. Those guys are 2 of the best td defenders in the sport.
"Footwork is the key to staying out of the clinch."
Is one of the keys.
What good is footwork once you get clinched? You have to know how to "unclinch" or disengage.
For a SNBer or primary striker, footwork wont be the only key if you dont develop a good sense of timing of when to sprawl and when to brawl (like Chuck and CC). Like footwork can help you run from a guy but you still have to attack your foe too, right?