I have a question. I know there are smart people here, so I would appreciate some feedback.
This week on my show we will be diving into a small controversy here locally: Cutbacks in college sports.
In this case, UC Davis recently announced they were cutting a few sports, including wrestling. There are a number of UCD alum wrestlers, including Urijah Faber, who are a little upset, especially considering they recently helped with fundraising, with the assumption that it would be helping these sports.
So as I've been wading through EADA bylaws, UC budgets, and Title IX (to try and know what the fuck I'm talking about), it occured to me: would collegiate MMA work?
My first thought is no. Just like boxing, I doubt parents and the UC (or state) system would approve such a violent sport for college kids, etc etc. I know headgear can't work as well.
But if you're in college, odds are you arent a minor. You could have coaches teaching all aspects, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, boxing, Muay Thai, to sort of combine a bunch of classes into one....the whole MIXED part of MMA.
With most of college sports either breaking even or losing money, I suspect that collegiate MMA would be a good money maker for the schools, and also provide decent training and maybe even a good minor league into professional MMA. If basketball and football, and to a smaller degree baseball use colleges as a minor league system, and MMA is truly becoming a viable option for athletes to turn professional, why not visit the idea of bringing into schools? To go even further, why not start having jiu-jitsu tourneys at the high school level?
Listen, I know it would never work. I'm sure its easy to say "You're a moron, tits or GTFO", I'm just trying to see if someone smarter than me can make a cogent argument in favor, or someone smarter than me can give a flat out hammer of an argument against.
Obviously, it would have to start as a club sport. I'm just trying to see if its worth even visiting the idea. Thanks in advance.
CD
frontrowbrian -Even if it became a sport, the NCAA would limit it to like 3 scholarships for a team of 20 guys. Just like baseball... they got 11.7 scholarships for 30 players.
Women's basketball, more like Dike Basketball, gets 15 scholarships when all you need for a team is like 10 or 11. Men's Basketball gets 13 and men's hoops is responsible for a multi billion dollar tv deal with CBS and Turner. Try and figure that out.
What's collegiate MMA offer over amateur MMA and local/regional pro show? The answer would be a scholarship that's not worth dick. And as collegiate athletes, no one could take sponsorship money.
The focus should be on keeping the existing wrestling programs and pressuring schools to start new ones. Not adding MMA which, like boxing, is best suited as a professional sport or if you want amateur fights, fight on a local card.
Fantastic points. As I am finding out, especially in the realm of Title IX, keeping and/or starting new wrestling programs is an exercise in futility. Already, the amount of wrestling just in the UC system is dwindling. Much of the funding is provided by fundraising, and the sport doesnt make much profit.
The killer is this: To start a new wrestling program, the school would also have to equal those new opportunities for women, in the form of wrestling (which didnt work at Davis for example), or some other form of female sport, which makes even LESS of a profit.
So in this case, the schools are handcuffed. I was visiting the collegiate MMA thought since now wrestling has to be looked at as a legit precursor to a paying gig (MMA), whereas in decades past there really wasnt much future for a collegiate wrestler, other than coaching.
Shitty fuck I hate Title IX the most.
big pooooop - shill i mean journalist stick to danas talking points. either u lack experience in athletics or it doesnt take much intelligence to be a shill. conferences in major college sports make money hand over fist on fball and bball. why would they want to fk that up with the bad publicity of students punching each other in the face. it might make a lil money, but the bad would def outweigh the good. i hate title nine more than u, my college program was cut cuz of it. it is ridic that wrestling is no more, but this is not the answer
I wouldve preferred tits or GTFO, but ok.
A. can it make the school money
B. how much does insurance cost
C. can it make the school money
D. A
frontrowbrian - The Title 9 argument is an absolute pissing contest.
Funding isn't the problem. There have been wrestling programs where alumni offered to underwrite THE ENTIRE wrestling program yet were turned down. Why? They need to meet the proportionality requirement of title 9. Money isn't the issue.
Yeah. When I was researching and talking to one of the UC Regents, I asked just how much it would take to revive wrestling. They said that you couldnt do it on a year to year, but it had to be endowed, to the tune of around 14 million. I said "Ok, now we just have to find 14 million lying around".....and he informed me you could just about double that, because they had to get an equal women's endowment to satisfy Title IX, which I had a hard time believing/swallowing.
FYI, the sports cut were:
Men's wrestling
Women's rowing
Men's indoor track
They had to spread the cuts around because the women's rowing team had 72 members. Keep in mind that part of the reason they had 72 members was simple: If you try out, you make the team.
I'm no expert, but I know they don't charge admission to watch rowing. So I'm guessing the profit margin is a bit in the red.
Interestingly enough, there's major opposition out here pissed off that they cut men's indoor track, because those men could participate in OUTDOOR track, therefore masking the amount of male opportunities truly lost. They feel like UCD is obfuscating the true amount of men's cuts in deference to Title IX because they can just switch to outdoor.
I can't help but think that if 40,000 people paid to watch a chess match, or whatever, then those sports would have a point. But they don't, they lose money, and suckle on the TEAT of men's football and basketball.
Here's just one of the things I've been looking at, as far as revenue/expense breakdown for each sport/gender
ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx
Genious - A college wrestling team costs $14mm?
No, to ENDOW it that was the figure they threw out. Certainly, it costs quite a bit less to run it each year, but they (understandably) don't want to have to scramble to find funding every season. So to endow it (seemingly in perpetuity), that's the figure they feel would be enough to invest, reap the profit off the investment, and use that profit to run the program permanently.
Or so they told me.
frontrowbrian - Just to use UC Davis as an example becuse it's been in the news and Urijah Faber has gone as far as saying UC Davis will never see another dime from him after cutting the wrestling program without any notice.I forgot swimming.
UC Davis just recently cut women's rowing, men's wrestling, men's swimming, and men's indoor track and field. They cut 3 men's sports, 1 female sport. They now have 14 women's teams yet only 9 for men. And this is a school with no football team so the excuse about football ruining everything can't even be used here.
And they DO have a football team. They open at CAL September 4th.
frontrowbrian -Carmichael Dave -frontrowbrian - Just to use UC Davis as an example becuse it's been in the news and Urijah Faber has gone as far as saying UC Davis will never see another dime from him after cutting the wrestling program without any notice.My mistake. That's interesting they cut women's rowing because that sport is considered an easy fix for AD's looking to balance out their male/female athlete ratios. Some rowing teams have more members than football teams. Upwards of 100 women.
Good point. I wonder if it was a scholarship vs scholarship thing.
frontrowbrian -yup it sucks.vengence - A. can it make the school moneyfunny how the "can it make the school money" question is totally ignored when it comes to female athletics. It's a MAJOR problem when men's wrestling is a net loss... yet it's a triumph in women's rights when there's 8-10 female teams posting an annual net loss.
B. how much does insurance cost
C. can it make the school money
D. A
lost out on walking on to a soccer team my sr year cuz of title 9
Good topic.
I think collegiate BJJ would have a better chance than MMA, at least over the next 5 years.
blue63 - There is enough trouble keeping Wrestling programs afloat, as they generate little to no revenue compared to College Football, Basketball, etc.
I say we should concern ourselves with keeping Collegiate Wrestling going before even considering Collegiate MMA.
That being said, I don't see ANY school OKing a school sponsored MMA program. Most schools won't even consider sponsoring a Boxing program and tell the students to make a Boxing Club, and Boxing has over a century of being in business in a professional capacity behind it where as MMA is young, misunderstood and often viewed or labeled as 'barbaric'.
I don't see it happening in this century.
agreed on all. However, with wrestling cut in part due to revenue neutral or negative status, I was thinking perhaps the MMA route could be a viable alternative in which wrestling could still at least be taught at some of these schools, along with the other disciplines.
As I said in the beginning, I know its a futile effort. I'm just gathering the point counterpoints and seeing if any could be reasonably refuted. Obviously, many are not at this point.