Come on Jocko

Underground BJJ Ground
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Caught up on some of his stuff the other day and started the one with Rener on. I’m pretty sure, correct me if I’m wrong, that Rener has never been on Rogan, yes? I just assumed because Rogan would ask him why he peddles all that Helio weak kid garbage and went through all the trouble of pretending he cares about his students when his whole approach is about nothing but money and his CTC’s are a joke. Now, more power to him, I get it, gotta keep spewing the bullshit as long it fuels the money train, but Rogan wouldn’t let him do that shit on JRE, no way.

Jocko did… full on let him ramble like only Rener can and spew endless bullshit. Rener even used a story about his high school days to talk shit about Ryron, something close to “I like to get good grades, Ryron not so much.” It was the only thing he said about Ryron the entire time I listened and had no relevance to anything he was talking about.

WTF happened to Jocko? He knows it’s all bullshit. He knows the CTC’s are a joke. He knows Helio was as athletic as Rener his whole life, if not more so.

Gotta be a payoff in there somewhere. Never thought I’d see someone like Jocko go down that road, genuinely saddens me.

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Dafuk…

Where the hell else on earth can I have a real conversation about this stuff if not here?

I’m gonna go cry for a while then, see what you fuckers done did ignoring me and shit?

:frowning:

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I don’t listen to their podcasts.
I generally stay out of the TMZ end of bjj.
I like to train and talk about techniques and competition matches.

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Rener and Ryron used to bug the shit outta me. Then one day I realized that anyone who listens to them is a fucking poser dork who I wouldn’t want to train with anyway.

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I actually enjoyed the podcast but mainly for the stuff about the police being under trained. As someone who works in law enforcement, I think getting a blue belt in BJJ should be a mandatory qualification.

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Have you been to a GST course? 4 days and you too can be a certified trainer! It’s Aikido for LEO.

Nothing in the GST course I went to as part of a corrections consultation I did made me think it was about anything but money for GU and looking good on paper for the agencies.

Remember, when someone charges you with a knife and you pull open guard and get your feet on their hips it will completely stop them, they won’t try to get past your feet in any way, they will just give up and assume they are stuck there forever. Oh, and they will only swing the knife at your face which will be out of reach, they won’t bury it in both your legs and groin over and over, and they most certainly will keep pushing into you so the technique works, 0% chance they step back and suddenly your little foot knife defense system all goes out the window with you laying on the ground and on your back at that point.

Oh, and Americanas are a hold position now, don’t worry about how to acquire one, and don’t worry that you won’t be able to hold someone like that forever, or worry about how such a hold is even useful if it was a hold… I could go on but I hope you get my point.

GST is the Combatives of the LEO world. It has been used to sound good on paper, less excessive force needed, cops don’t have to always go for their guns and tazers, and the liberal cities and city councils are eating it up. It’s even POST certified for CE hours in a lot of states now.

Only problem being, it doesn’t work in real life anymore than most of the Combatives stuff does… actually GST makes combatives look good.

And think of how much stuff you learn to become a blue belt that you can’t use as a cop. Hell, I went one on one with a fully capable 6’3 260lb 17 year old at a “childrens center” recently who had a long history of assaulting staff and was much stronger than I am. The other staff who was with me literally ran away in terror to the point he couldn’t even radio the staff assault code properly. That is a self defense situation if I ever heard of one, and while I tried to control him standing, we crashed to the ground and as he started going for my eyes and trying to head butt me I rnc’d him. He woke up a few seconds later rather disoriented and gave me time to cuff his ass. Problem solved, no one hurt. I have a child protective services complaint hanging over my head now.

Point being, bjj is awesome, but in this day and age if you use anything but control techniques you’re going to get in trouble, maybe fired, maybe prison time, and blue belt control skill is not enough to go one on one with someone the size of Frank Mir while you hope back up is on the way. If I didn’t have the money to just hire a lawyer to deal with the bullshit I’m dealing with it would have been a criminal complaint for fuck sake.

If that were to happen to a cop or at an adult facility, that inmate is dead no matter how much bjj skill I have, and it would have been justified.

I guess my point is that in situations you need bjj skill, it’s already passed the point of bjj skill being the answer, and in situations where it could help, GU and their GST crap is not going to work.

Way to make me hijack my own thread, but what did you think about Jocko letting Rener barf all his bullshit out for half the damn show?

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I was listening to Jocko and you’re proving my point.

Jocko is that poser dork you speak of… except it’s Jocko so obviously he’s not but he’s putting himself in that category and it saddens me deeply.

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Jocko hadn’t been the TMZ guy until now as far as I know. Rogan of course but not Jocko.

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Yeah im not saying Reners product is good, I just liked the point about police officers not getting enough training in the things they probably should train weekly. I haven’t been to a GST course but have been to a combatives class. Its basically a fundamentals program with a self defense focus. I agree on the subs, I dont use subs in my job. Just the control and takedown aspects. Subs can go bad in a lot of ways, especially chokes. I will admit, I turned it off when they started talking about the book lol

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What Rener is saying is true, but he also knows the money and time commitment a department would have to make to properly train people doesn’t exist, so he comes in with the perfect solution, a 4 day course that on paper looks awesome and allows a department and a city council to say, hey, you were taught to hold someone with an americana “hold” and instead you took their back and before you were overpowered and beaten to death you put them to sleep so we can say you’re a bad person and we properly trained you to deal with that in other ways so now we make a big publicity stunt when we fire you cause you know, we tried and you just didn’t listen and wanted to hurt people.

Rener isn’t helping the situation, he’s just profiting off of it and actually making things worse. Departments can say they have started utilizing “alternative” training methods to reduce excessive force incidents when they are not doing anything of the sort.

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So in all the hundreds of hours I have listened to Jocko I have never heard him call bullshit or push back on a guest. Its just not something thats part of his show.

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I assume Jocko had them on because he needs guests and thought it might attract listeners. You listened.

I don’t think Jocko is a fan of their bullshit. I hope.

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Probably lets them ramble and spew their bullshit and trusts his listeners to make the right judgement on what they’re hearing.

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The ONLY way BJJ (or any training) is beneficial for a cop is by just becoming a regular student. Commit. Train 3-5x/wk and really learn something.

Name one thing, anything, that you can learn, digest and become proficient at after a 4yr workshop. The only way to become proficient at anything is repetition and reinforcement by application over time.

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Jocko also straight up said during the podcast that Helio “invented” the art of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

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Yes, forgot that part. I almost shit myself when he said that. Then Rener proceeds to bullshit about how Helio was so weak all he could do was watch his brothers train, and apparently did this every day for hours a day (who the fuck would just watch that much if they couldn’t participate?) and this is how he got so good… watching his brothers… train in their family’s art… but Helio invented that art…

Those are some impressive mental gymnastics you have to perform to ignore the absurdity of all that.

Jocko also wrote the forward to Rener’s new book, which he read as he opens that show.

Oh well, Pedro took the money, Jocko obviously took the money, all those high profile practitioners who never set foot in so much as a gi school let alone a Gracie CTC who are on record promoting Rener’s book for him took the money.

What’s the quote? They always take the money in the end, or something like that. But Jocko… wtf? Of all the people I would have thought wouldn’t sell out it would have been him.

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I haven’t listened to a fraction of his stuff that you have, but I have always gotten the sense that he speaks his mind. Maybe doesn’t say you’re full of shit, but I also don’t usually pick episodes where he would need to say that, as the guest is someone solid I want to listen to. Hard to imagine Jocko having a bullshitter on his show but again, I haven’t listened to all of his episodes by a long shot.

For all his snake oil salesman bullshit, for some reason I thought on Jocko’s show Rener might be an interesting guy to listen to. What I did not expect was for Jocko to buy into and even repeat the bullshit himself. That one blew my mind.

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jocko might be a great guy… I’ve got no idea.
but jocko 's name is a brand and he’s trying to create value for that brand
I don’t know the full extent of his background… the guy was an officer in the navy and served as a seal… That’s honorable. cool… but he’s CULTivated a following as he’s trying to create name brand value and he’s clearly been successful doing that from a business perspective through his origin brand and books.

https://www.masterclass.com/classes/critical-leadership-training-with-navy-seal-officer-jocko-willink

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Jocko is someone who didn’t have to sell out to market himself, that’s the sad part for me.

Most people, like 99.9% of all people, myself included, would have to go the Rener route to make a big enough name for themselves to get rich.

Jocko didn’t have to. He could have sold books and master classes and speaking engagements and advertising time on his podcast and made a ton of money just being who he was all his life. So yes, I find that sad.

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Maybe Jocko just doesn’t know any better. Jocko’s first teacher, Master Chief Steve Bailey, who introduced him to BJJ, was training out of Rorion’s garage and probably regurgitated the Rorion stories. Fabio Santos was Jocko’s first black belt instructor and he was one of Rorion’s OG Gracie Academy instructors. Maybe Jocko just hasn’t taken the time to read his BJJ history.

Or, maybe it’s because Jocko and Dean’s gym is a Humaita affiliate (if I remember correctly), and he doesn’t want to piss off Royler.