I hope this fight will happen before either of them retire.
Then - Randy - after a tough fight, but Coleman would gas and Randy would take advantage
Now - Randy - He would run right over Coleman now. Mark has shown zero improvement since his UFC days. Just the same meathead wrestler style G & P, while Randy has improved his all around game tremendously.
"Randy was always too small for HWT, yet he dominated that division for a long time, which says a lot about his ability."
As I have pointed out many times, Randy was never outweighed by a dramatic amount as so many people seem to think. He gave up 17lbs versus Ricco and Barnett; when did that become some huge gap for the HW division? Nogueira and Crocop do that routinely; for that matter, so does Fedor. Never mind the fact that Randy lost both those fights.
And where is all this evolution? Randy takes people down and punches them in the face until the bell rings or the ref steps in. He has been doing this his whole career.
The last time he fought a real submission fighter, he was submitted. He has always had good standup -- he beat Vitor standing 7 years ago, though it ended on the ground -- but (except for that Vitor fight) he still wins all his matches by taking his opponent down and punching them. This is no knock on Couture -- obviously his style works -- I just don't see why people are trumpeting his "evolution".
As for Coleman's cardio -- weren't all the matches in which he gassed before the UFC dropped to 5 minute rounds?
triump in his evolution-
he has learned submissions through scars from experience.
there's your evolution
Watch the evolution yourself here:
http://www.subfighter.com/vid/highlights/fighter/Randy%20Highlight.mpg
Randy has dramatically improved his standup and top game.
back in 97, Sak would have beaten either Randy or Coleman IMO
"if the hammer doesnt run out of gas he takes it. 3x5min rounds coleman wins easy."
Do you HONESTLY believe that anyone can "EASILY" beat Randy Couture?
I'm not a lawyer, but in response to your thread...doesn't sound like the hammer is winning easily against anyone....if he has gassing problems....I dont care if he's fighting Genki Sudo
"coleman looked real tough against pete williams..
he had fedor's back, and fuckin blew it..
what the fuck has he been doing all these years?
it's like he's learned nothing..
and btw-Coleman looked very technical when he jumped into the belt and fell on his head... after he beat igor in the grand prix finals..
so funny"
lol, true old chap.
To say that any fighter doesn't have balls is insulting. To say that Coleman has more balls because he still fights heavyweights is ridiculous.
It's like saying that the majority of the fighters in the 205 division don't have any balls becuse they don't move up in weight. Most of those guys walk around at 215-220, close to what Randy walked around at as a heavyweight. Do Tito, Chuck, or Silva not have any balls?
Randy performs better at 205. He's even stated that he wished he had moved down sooner. He feels stronger, faster, and his conditioning is way better. That doesn't mean he tucked his tail and ran off to 205 because he had a couple of losses.
I like both fighters. But I feel that all around, Randy is, or has become, the better of the two.
To be 40 and dominating your weight class says something. As much as I like Coleman, he hasn't dominated anything in a long time.
Calm down, brother. For one, Randy vs Silva, which is already doubtful, would happen LONG before this fight would ever even cross somebody's mind.
I never implied that you actually thought Randy had been neutured. I think you took that one out of context.
I don't think that just because Randy is winning at 205 means that he would dominate the HW's. Having said that, the point of the thread isn't whether or not Randy could come back and dominate the HW division, it's whether or not he could dominate Coleman.
I don't think he'd dominate Coleman, but's it's my opinion that he'd win. Weight classes aside, not saying you have to match them up, I'll re-state that in my opinion, Randy is all-around a better fighter out of the two.
lol @ Coleman continues to be a threat.
So if the person isn't on your bandwagon, you lol @ them?
I have a different opinion than you, and after my last post, you made a point to "lol @ bandwagon hopping ug experts". I assumed you were talking to me, since it followed my last post.
What big name has Mark Coleman KO'd through G&P in the last 5 years? Granted, Randy hasn't either. But you assume Coleman is more effective at G&P. Why? He didn't take out Mo Smith, Pete Williams, or Pedro Rizzo (although Coleman was ROBBED in that decision). Coleman couldn't take them out while he had them down, and the fights got stood up, and then he'd lose. Randy takes fighters down, keeps them there, and pounds on them. Constantly. He may not knock them out, but he wares them out and usually takes the fight from them.
You assume Coleman is the better wrestler? Why? Because he's never fought someone who put him on his back? Why do you assume Randy couldn't? Keep in mind, Tito had never been taken down in the UFC.
The odds are just as slim, if not more, that Coleman could knock out or submit Randy.
Coleman is a punching bag on his feet most of the time, especially as the fight wares on. Randy is not. Five minute rounds or not, Randy's conditioning is superior.
I think it's hard to pick a clear winner. You seem to think it's easy. I just disagree. No big deal.
never was on Colemans bandwagon, everyone on it had to suck the drivers cock.
Couture all the way
The unknown factor by Couture is the ability to adapt. Does anybody REALLY think that Randy would try to outwrestle Coleman? Nope. 10 to 1 Randy would become a submission magician for that one match, and he would pull it off!
The man KNOWS how to win.
Lol at Coleman is still a threat. To faggots like Johnny Blaze who still think it's 2000, maybe.
Let me explain something to all of you geniuses about weight.
If you have fought at 2 different weight classes & you perform better at the lower one, and you can make that lower weight on a consistent basis, then you belong at the lower weight.
That goes for wrestling, Judo, Sambo, Boxing, or MMA.
Those are the facts, gentlemen. Randy belongs at LHW.
What ever, Johnny. Face facts. Randy has become very versatile. He beat Tito at his own game, and he did the same to Chuck. He was submitted in some restrictive rules matches that are arguably, not MMA. On the other hand, Coleman remained the master of take downs. So what. His ability to execute quick take downs is as fleeting as his cardio. Not evolving is clear by the fact that he can still take people down and dominate them on the ground for short periods of time. What he can't seem to do is finish. In the old days he finished on the ground with inexperienced ground fighters. Again, so what. Today, what good will that do against the likes of Mino, Fedor, Mir, etc.? Coleman had his day in the spot light in MMA. I'm still a fan, but what's gone is gone. Randy, on the other hand is still in possession of his cardio and can hang with the best, if not beat them. Randy's age MAY put him somewhat close to the end of his career. Coleman is at the end of his due to age, injuries, and antiquated skills, given the level of talent and versatility in the game today. You have your opinions and I have mine. Peace.
To assume that Coleman could easily take down Randy, is to assume much. Both were national finalist in college (Randy twice, and Mark once, which he won). Takedowns are not so easily secured at that level. Both have very good takedown defense, which means that it is likely that most of the fight would be standing, which on paper would be an advantage for Couture. Randy has defeated defeated better strikers. (Although, I think Mark got screwed against Rizzo). Coleman would have to not only get the takedown, but be effective from the top. I do not see either one getting a submission. I think the takedowns would balance out. Since we are probably never going to see this fight happen, we will likely never know, but I do think that Randy would win.