Conor is not a well rounded fighter. He is also the only person to hold two belts at the same time.
I'm seeing a trend in MMA thats moving away from being well rounded as the goal for fighters.
More guys like Wonderboy, Maia, Conor, Khabib, Ronda, JJ etc are coming through these days and these are all people on their upswing right now (barring ronda) and not one of them is a jack of all trades.
These are high, high, high level specialists who learn enough of the other games to be good at a high level but they have huge skill spikes in certain areas.
If you stand with Conor you are fucked, if you get him to the ground how ever (good luck with that) who knows maybe you can't do better there.
If you go to the ground with Maia you are fucked (good luck keeping it standing too)
no one can strike with JJ
No one can out wrestle Khabib
Wonderboy is another freakshow on the feet.
I dunno this is just a trend I'm seeing. MMA might be moving away from the wrestling BJJ boxer who is good at everything but not amazing at anything in particular.
No you're not wrong but this game seems to do circles. My guess is at some point a really good well rounded fighter will come along and dominate, then everyone will be trying to get well rounded.
Conor is not a well rounded fighter. He is also the only person to hold two belts at the same time.
I'm seeing a trend in MMA thats moving away from being well rounded as the goal for fighters.
More guys like Wonderboy, Maia, Conor, Khabib, Ronda, JJ etc are coming through these days and these are all people on their upswing right now (barring ronda) and not one of them is a jack of all trades.
These are high, high, high level specialists who learn enough of the other games to be good at a high level but they have huge skill spikes in certain areas.
If you stand with Conor you are fucked, if you get him to the ground how ever (good luck with that) who knows maybe you can't do better there.
If you go to the ground with Maia you are fucked (good luck keeping it standing too)
no one can strike with JJ
No one can out wrestle Khabib
Wonderboy is another freakshow on the feet.
I dunno this is just a trend I'm seeing. MMA might be moving away from the wrestling BJJ boxer who is good at everything but not amazing at anything in particular.
Am I wrong here?
Guys like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida have also accomplished this before them. McGregor may not have elite BJJ or wrestling, but it's coming along. JJ also has a decent ground game as she showed against Gadelha.
elcornjr - No you're not wrong but this game seems to do circles. My guess is at some point a really good well rounded fighter will come along and dominate, then everyone will be trying to get well rounded.
This. It's the evolution. And what an exciting one.
Imagine one day a new fighter with Conor's boxing, wonderboy' kicks and Khaviv's wrestling with Maia's will appear.
Conor is well rounded compared to a fighter of 10 years ago. Same with the others. Look at Weidman vs Romero, Weidman is a top flight wrestler and he was made to look like shit by a world class wrestler. It's better to max out a skill and learn the defensive attributes of the other skill such as sprawl or sub defense.
There was a time when everyone was talking about how fighters who trained everything from the beginning will be the next generation of fighter.
But Instead specializing in something before MMA and then filling in the holes later without a doubt has proven to be the best way to approach the sport. It can give you massive advantages where your opponents can't close the gap
Conor is not a well rounded fighter. He is also the only person to hold two belts at the same time.
I'm seeing a trend in MMA thats moving away from being well rounded as the goal for fighters.
More guys like Wonderboy, Maia, Conor, Khabib, Ronda, JJ etc are coming through these days and these are all people on their upswing right now (barring ronda) and not one of them is a jack of all trades.
These are high, high, high level specialists who learn enough of the other games to be good at a high level but they have huge skill spikes in certain areas.
If you stand with Conor you are fucked, if you get him to the ground how ever (good luck with that) who knows maybe you can't do better there.
If you go to the ground with Maia you are fucked (good luck keeping it standing too)
no one can strike with JJ
No one can out wrestle Khabib
Wonderboy is another freakshow on the feet.
I dunno this is just a trend I'm seeing. MMA might be moving away from the wrestling BJJ boxer who is good at everything but not amazing at anything in particular.
Am I wrong here?
Guys like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida have also accomplished this before them. McGregor may not have elite BJJ or wrestling, but it's coming along. JJ also has a decent ground game as she showed against Gadelha.
You are right that these people have good skills in other areas I agree with you there.
But Anderson was The Spider because of his striking. He had some good sub wins but anyone who says his BJJ is as good as his striking is flat wrong.
JJ may have a "good" ground game but to compare it to her second to none kickboxing is my point.
These people have good skills everywhere thats why its MMA but their bread gets buttered in one area and their other skills are only there to service their main weapon.
The best well rounded fighter the world has ever seen is Jon Jones. He is literally world class everywhere. Thats what makes him such a freak.
JBJ out wrestled DC, Out struck a still prime Shogun, out dirty boxed Glover and the list goes on and on. Hes the biggest freak of them all skill wise. Never got two belts though.
HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe - Who is JJ? Joanna? Jon Jones? I'm just gonna guess Joanna, because it would be ridiculous to call Jon Jones one dimensional.
Yea sorry JJ is Joana
I call Jon JBJ and you are correct hes probably the best well rounded fighter in history
HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe - Who is JJ? Joanna? Jon Jones? I'm just gonna guess Joanna, because it would be ridiculous to call Jon Jones one dimensional.
truth is jon jones isnt the best striker, hardest hitter or the best wrestler, he is a b level student at all of those but with his physical attribute and his A+ transition game he has become the best.
this has always been the way it goes though.
look at fedor. he wasnt the best striker or grappler. he beat strikers by mixing it up and having good power and a frantic pace, he beat wrestlers and grapplers by striking or engaging them on the ground but in odd scramble like positions or standing over them like he did to noguiera.
GSP another good example...he had a karate background and it has helped him but he has largely been succesful based on non combative athletic traits and approach to the game.
on the other hand there are the Anderson Silvas and Aldos of the world who have proven just the opposite.
Conor is more of an anderson silva type. we have seen his groundgame is less then stellar therefore he spends an exhausting effort training how to make the fight unfold in a very specific and predictable manner for conner that is foreign to his opponents. i dont think he will ever be known as "dangerous" on the ground though, just doesnt seem likely.
elcornjr - No you're not wrong but this game seems to do circles. My guess is at some point a really good well rounded fighter will come along and dominate, then everyone will be trying to get well rounded.
This. It's the evolution. And what an exciting one.
Imagine one day a new fighter with Conor's boxing, wonderboy' kicks and Khaviv's wrestling with Maia's will appear.
I don't think that'll happen, I could be wrong. But if you're knocking guys out boxing and your wrestling, kickboxing, BJJ is competent to keep you standing - why spend all the time trying to maximize the other aspects? Rory was that prototype of a straight "MMA" fighter and a specialist like Thompson handily beat him.
I see specialists always doing better than Jack of All Trade fighters. The key is that the specialists have to work on preventing the other dimensions from coming into play. Rather than trying to become a collegiate-level wrestler, work on using what you do much better to nullify that. Ditto with BJJ and striking, too. There will never be a "perfect" fighter but the best are going to be ideal at dominating at least one aspect of the game and preventing/surviving the rest.
I think a big exception to this theory is the Diaz brothers.
They have managed to be truly world class at both BJJ and Boxing and basically scoff at the idea of wrestling.
I think the phrase "world class" has been used too much. Both are very good/competent in boxing & BJJ + their toughness, chins, triathlete conditioning, grit, etc. is what makes them. I wouldn't call them well rounded as their kickboxing is lacking, wrestling offense and defense.