Where would you put Duran in your all time pfp
ranking? I know Bert sugar has a prime Duran number 2
in his, with Robinson first. I have only seen a few
clips or Robinson and his first fight with Turpin.
Anybody seen much of Robinson? How do you think a
fight between the two would go?
Hmmmm.... I'd put him in the top 10 perhaps. Robinson would be simply too slick for Duran.
I'd say:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Jimmy Wilde (Take a bow, all you Welshmen)
4. Jack Johnson
4. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong (3 simultaneous titles in 3 weight classes?!?!)
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Jack Dempsey
I personally cannot think of anyone who weighed
135 lbs who could beat a young Duran.
The only reason I rate Rock and Dempsey so low is because some of the more modern sophisticated heavies would give them trouble.
That said, they're on my all-time top 10 P4P. That means something, right?
Wilde was a freak.
It got VERY difficult to make that after #4 because there are so many great boxers.
Pernell Whitaker would have beaten Duran at 135 IMO.
Pound for pound? As in, who would beat whom with each fighter at his respective absolute peak? I'd very comfortably put Duran in the top five.
As I recall, Sugar ranked Duran 3rd after Robinson and Louis.
I am also surprised at the amount of heavies on your
list Toki. Especially putting them ahead of the likes
of Armstrong.
ConchabarFinn : yeah thats what I mean.
That sucks about Sugar Ray, Martin. Most peoples best
pfp fighter and we cant see him in his prime.
antoniomontana,
Shocks the shit outta me too. I am actually one of these guys who hates heavies on P4P lists. But things **I** thought about were:
Mechanics - That's where Joe Louis won.
Strength of schedule
KO rate and power (Marciano and Wilde)
Amazing feats - I fucked up. Sam Langford needed to be up there for fighting guys heavier than him on a regular basis.
Superb heart - Marciano.
Dominating your peers - Duran, Johnson and Leonard. Why didn't Tyson make it there? I honestly don't feel that he had as good as competition as Ali, Dempsey, etc.
Sugar Ray was just perfect. Pernell, RJJ and Chavez could be up there. I only had 10 spots.
Martin, why Jofre?
Shit. Forgot Greb. See how hard it is to choose only 10???
"Don't know why nobody filmed him as a welter"
I don't think that's true. YOu mentioned on here a while back about that, but a few months ago I watched a DVD that had him fighting in a welter title fight. I can't remember the opponent, or the title of the DVD but it was one of those "The Greatest Fighters Ever: Sugar Ray Robinson" type ones.
I think that Barkley fight cemented his place in the top 10 for sure. It's so hard to pick only 10. Where does a Hagler fit in all of this? I don't think any middleweight could have beaten the Hagler that fought Hamsho in 1981.
I see what you mean TOki. Maybe people are too hard
on heavyweights , discounting them straight away
because they only fight at the one weight (people who
start their carreer at heavyweight that is).
Did'nt Harry Greb think Jack Dempsey was a punk? I
think he had a sparring seesion with him and did'nt
think too much of him. I know he had respect for
Gene Tunney. Althogh he beat him one time when they
fought, after fighting him a few times I think he
said he was'nt going to fight him anymore because:
"that sonofabitch is too big and too tough" or words
to that effect. Anybody else know hear anything like
this?
"As I recall, Sugar ranked Duran 3rd after Robinson and Louis."
Actually I think he did rank him third but it was
after Armstrong. It was a show with Bill Cayton and
Bert Sugar I seen. Did you see the same show?
No, I recall reading it in a magazine, The Ring Perhaps.
I watched the thing again. Sugar didnt have Duran in
his top 3. Cayton had him third. Maybe he changed
his mind in the magazine you read.
"Wasnt hagler a better fighter than Duran?"#
No. He was a better middleweight , but Duran was at
his best at lightweight.
I agree with the Ike Williams comment. Ike Williams was fast, and could punch like you wouldn't believe. The clips I've seen of him are very, very impressive.
My last trainer's father beat Tony Canzoneri, Lew Jenkins, Leo Rodak, Benny Bass, Johnny Jadick, amongst others, and was in the top ten of the world for 10 years straight, but never got a title shot. He had a record of 10-2 against people who were world champions at one time. Wesley Ramey was his name, he had 257 fights total. We're working on trying to get him into the boxing hall of fame. He's a great lightweight that slipped through history. He knocked Jenkins down 11 times in one of their bouts.
My all-time #1 is the same as Martin Burke's. Harry Greb. Alot of people think he was a face first windmill guy, but he could do it all.
My list would feature Robinson, Ali, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Greb, Dempsey, Armstrong, Hagler, and Pep.
I know I'm late, but actually coming up with a thought-out list is DIFFICULT and time-consuming! Here goes:
1. Robinson
2. Ali
3. Armstrong
4. Greb
5. Wilde
6. Louis
7. Duran
8. Pep
9. Whitaker
10. Leonard
Duran was the greatest pfp I have ever seen in his prime at 135.