DW: That's how **** gets started

 What is a fair market value for Dan Henderson?  Now after every fight card they reveal each fighters base pay.  Tito gets $250,000 to show with no win bonus.  Josh Koschek gets $53,000 to show with a matching win bonus.  Dan is between these two fighters in his ability to draw fans to a ppv he is fighting on.  I say pay the man something like $125,000 to show with a $75,000 win bonus. 

xx

bismanfightclub - LOL, I like how Dana just decides Hendo is in a doesn't want to make a deal mode, cause he won't cave in to Dana.   How bout Dan just says he tried negotiating, but Dana just was just in a doesn't want to make a deal mode.  I would like to see Dan stay in the UFC, but I hope he gets good money.   The UFC is hurting for decent fighters to put on cards right now with all the injuries and illness but Dana wants to act stupid with a legend that can bring it in 3 weight classes.  DUMB!



 They've used this over and over again.



Not willing to accept what the UFC offers to pay = not willing to fight the best.  It's a cheap thing to do to guys who put their health, livelihood, dignity, and everything else on the line every time they fight.

Zuffa is a great money making business, but they are so greedy. They could afford to pay their fighters much more. The fighters in the UFC are obviously the most popular and therefore get the most in sponsership money, but the company pays them jackshit. Forcing the fighters to give up likeness rights for the video game the UFC will make money on is pretty shitty. Great business, but they treat their employees like shit.

JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.

So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?

 


 Not to take this thread onto a whole other tangent, but if Henderson's star was created anywhere, it was PRIDE. Like Anderson, Rampage, CroCop, Wandy etc., he came into the UFC pre-packaged. Sure, he is far more popular now that he is in the UFC, but fans were asked to more or less take it on faith that these guys were already elite-level contenders. Zuffa has lived off this kind of star for the last few years, consistently using assets from the wreckages of PRIDE, EliteXC (Kimbo) and Affliction (Belfort) as headlining draws. But they kind of got beat up by Strikeforce when it came to the Affliction collapse, losing out on Fedor, Mousasi and Hieron. The supply of ready-made stars is seriously low right now for UFC, which is why it seems self-destructive to be doing a smear job on someone like Hendo, who is at the absolute peak of his fame.



Since TUF 1, how many PPV stars that people will consistently pay for have been born and bred in the UFC?



Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Michael Bisping. That's the list. Maybe add Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian if you want to be really generous.

smoogy - 
JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.
So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?
 

 Not to take this thread onto a whole other tangent, but if Henderson's star was created anywhere, it was PRIDE. Like Anderson, Rampage, CroCop, Wandy etc., he came into the UFC pre-packaged. Sure, he is far more popular now that he is in the UFC, but fans were asked to more or less take it on faith that these guys were already elite-level contenders. Zuffa has lived off this kind of star for the last few years, consistently using assets from the wreckages of PRIDE, EliteXC (Kimbo) and Affliction (Belfort) as headlining draws. But they kind of got beat up by Strikeforce when it came to the Affliction collapse, losing out on Fedor, Mousasi and Hieron. The supply of ready-made stars is seriously low right now for UFC, which is why it seems self-destructive to be doing a smear job on someone like Hendo, who is at the absolute peak of his fame.

Since TUF 1, how many PPV stars that people will consistently pay for have been born and bred in the UFC?

Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Michael Bisping. That's the list. Maybe add Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian if you want to be really generous.


GSP? And really before TUF 1 Matt Hughes was hardly what you'd call a "draw" and now he's one of the most popular guys. Same with BJ Penn and Rich Franklin.

And I don't think you can say Anderson's star was created in PRIDE either, not like Wandy or Shogun or Nog. I mean, the guy hadn't fought there for two years before he got to the UFC and he'd been fighting primarily in Cage Rage before that.

JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.

So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?

 


 



Talent>Being a star



Cindy

SNewman - 
smoogy - 
JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.

So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?

 


 Not to take this thread onto a whole other tangent, but if Henderson's star was created anywhere, it was PRIDE. Like Anderson, Rampage, CroCop, Wandy etc., he came into the UFC pre-packaged. Sure, he is far more popular now that he is in the UFC, but fans were asked to more or less take it on faith that these guys were already elite-level contenders. Zuffa has lived off this kind of star for the last few years, consistently using assets from the wreckages of PRIDE, EliteXC (Kimbo) and Affliction (Belfort) as headlining draws. But they kind of got beat up by Strikeforce when it came to the Affliction collapse, losing out on Fedor, Mousasi and Hieron. The supply of ready-made stars is seriously low right now for UFC, which is why it seems self-destructive to be doing a smear job on someone like Hendo, who is at the absolute peak of his fame.



Since TUF 1, how many PPV stars that people will consistently pay for have been born and bred in the UFC?



Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Michael Bisping. That's the list. Maybe add Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian if you want to be really generous.





GSP? And really before TUF 1 Matt Hughes was hardly what you'd call a "draw" and now he's one of the most popular guys. Same with BJ Penn and Rich Franklin.



And I don't think you can say Anderson's star was created in PRIDE either, not like Wandy or Shogun or Nog. I mean, the guy hadn't fought there for two years before he got to the UFC and he'd been fighting primarily in Cage Rage before that.


 GSP, Hughes, Penn and Franklin were all top UFC guys before TUF came around. Anderson was the middleweight champ of Cage Rage when that actually meant something, I think the fact that he came in, plowed through one opponent in under a minute and then fought for the title all but proves he was brought in as a proven contender, not a project to be developed.

LOL what a fucktard Dana is.

Undisclosed bonuses and paying fighters under the table, and then complaining that fighters rely on 'I heard...' to try and determine their relative worth.

CindyO - Talent>Being a starCindyDan is more talented than Tito. Dan should atleast get Titos base pay. Dan is a reasonable guy and I think if the UFC offered him a Title shot and 200k base he would be signing up. It sucks that Vitor gets a shot before Dan... I am very Biased in this situation. :)

I've gotta agree, Tito is a good selling point as to why these fighters need raises, I don't think it will take long before fans start realizing what tito really is, and that is a fringe top 15 LHW who won't finish fights.

Also, after that interview, you can be 99% sure that Dan is signing with Strikeforce and that is a good opportunity for him.

Tito's drawing power didn't do well in the gates the last fight, Hendo has a point

smoogy - 
SNewman - 
smoogy - 
JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.
So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?
 

 Not to take this thread onto a whole other tangent, but if Henderson's star was created anywhere, it was PRIDE. Like Anderson, Rampage, CroCop, Wandy etc., he came into the UFC pre-packaged. Sure, he is far more popular now that he is in the UFC, but fans were asked to more or less take it on faith that these guys were already elite-level contenders. Zuffa has lived off this kind of star for the last few years, consistently using assets from the wreckages of PRIDE, EliteXC (Kimbo) and Affliction (Belfort) as headlining draws. But they kind of got beat up by Strikeforce when it came to the Affliction collapse, losing out on Fedor, Mousasi and Hieron. The supply of ready-made stars is seriously low right now for UFC, which is why it seems self-destructive to be doing a smear job on someone like Hendo, who is at the absolute peak of his fame.

Since TUF 1, how many PPV stars that people will consistently pay for have been born and bred in the UFC?

Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Michael Bisping. That's the list. Maybe add Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian if you want to be really generous.


GSP? And really before TUF 1 Matt Hughes was hardly what you'd call a "draw" and now he's one of the most popular guys. Same with BJ Penn and Rich Franklin.

And I don't think you can say Anderson's star was created in PRIDE either, not like Wandy or Shogun or Nog. I mean, the guy hadn't fought there for two years before he got to the UFC and he'd been fighting primarily in Cage Rage before that.

 GSP, Hughes, Penn and Franklin were all top UFC guys before TUF came around. Anderson was the middleweight champ of Cage Rage when that actually meant something, I think the fact that he came in, plowed through one opponent in under a minute and then fought for the title all but proves he was brought in as a proven contender, not a project to be developed.


Were you not around in 2005?

Hughes and Penn were established, I'll give you that, but Penn was only a big name to hardcores pre-TUF because he'd fucked off to K1 at that point, remember?

GSP wasn't a star by any means at that stage. He was seen as the top prospect at WW, but he'd just been beaten by Hughes and didn't really start taking off as a proper star till after he shitkicked Trigg and Sherk in late 2005. And Franklin pre-TUF had all of three fights in the UFC! It wasn't until the TUF Finale when he beat Ken that he even got a push from Zuffa. To say GSP and Franklin were established pre-TUF is fucking idiotic.

BruceLeeMMAfighting - 
Underground News -  .Article h3{ font-family: Helvetica,Arial,Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; color: black; padding: 0 0 3px 5px; margin: 0 0 2px 0; } .Article h3 a{ text-decoration: none; color: black; } .Article .ArticleSource{ float: left; } DW: That's how **** gets started [411mania.com]  
Dana White was recently on MMAJunkie.com Radio and discussed the departure of Dan Henderson, here are the highlights...

On Henderson's Stance: "Dan is in I-don't-want-to-make-a-deal mode. There are some deals in which you go in and negotiate and make a deal. You know you want to make a deal. ... Dan Henderson knows he does not want to make a deal."

On What Henderson Wants: "The [expletive] that Dan came in and said in my office and what he wants, it's unrealistic, and he knows it," White said. "And it's basically based off of, 'I heard this guy is making this, and I heard this guy made (this much).' Basically, what everybody gets pissed off about is Tito. 'Oh, I heard Tito is making all this money, and Tito is this and that.' And it's because Tito likes to go out there and stay stuff like that or somebody in his camp did. That's how [expletive] gets started. "

Will He Ever Come Back?: "Doors are never closed," he said. "I'm in the fight business. We put on fights. Doors never close. Never say never. Dan could call me tonight. Fedor could call on three-way with him. We could sign them both up tonight if they want to call."
read full article...  


So, Dan's officially in Strikeforce?

The clinchgear ban basically hinted at it but I never read a news report officially announcing his move.



No, he's not in strikeforce, at least no yet. The clinchgear ban was per Dana because its Hendo's gear, Dana said that if Dan didn't want to be in the UFC, he wasn't going to promote his gear. If Dan signs with the UFC clinchgear is back in. Pretty simple, Dana is using the sponsorship deal as leverage to get Hendo to sign.

Lynchman - When was the last time a fighter openly said what he made? Please find me some quotes. Truth is that most guys don't want the world knowing what they make.I can't recall any fighters disclosing pay, sponsorship dollars and whatnot. Do they want to know what others are making? Most likely, but you will be hard pressed to find somebody that wants everyone to know what they made.Even after Tito left the UFC, he would not talk about contracts and pay.Has Fedor come out and said he is making right now? Does Scott Coker disclose all pay? Hell no.



Regarding % to fighters. The ppv breakdown was made public with the Couture dispute. Just looking at that shows that they pay far more than 10%


 how do you properly negotiate your wage when competitve salaries are based on hearsay?

Fastwalker - 
Underground News -  "The [expletive] that Dan came in and said in my office and what he wants, it's unrealistic, and he knows it.


Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly would this expletive stand for? I can't figure it out..


Shit. "The shit that Dan came in and said..."
That would be my guess. Dana would only use Fuck as another expletive.

DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.



 I hope you get herpes.

SNewman - 
smoogy - 
SNewman - 
smoogy - 
JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.
So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?
 

 Not to take this thread onto a whole other tangent, but if Henderson's star was created anywhere, it was PRIDE. Like Anderson, Rampage, CroCop, Wandy etc., he came into the UFC pre-packaged. Sure, he is far more popular now that he is in the UFC, but fans were asked to more or less take it on faith that these guys were already elite-level contenders. Zuffa has lived off this kind of star for the last few years, consistently using assets from the wreckages of PRIDE, EliteXC (Kimbo) and Affliction (Belfort) as headlining draws. But they kind of got beat up by Strikeforce when it came to the Affliction collapse, losing out on Fedor, Mousasi and Hieron. The supply of ready-made stars is seriously low right now for UFC, which is why it seems self-destructive to be doing a smear job on someone like Hendo, who is at the absolute peak of his fame.

Since TUF 1, how many PPV stars that people will consistently pay for have been born and bred in the UFC?

Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Michael Bisping. That's the list. Maybe add Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian if you want to be really generous.


GSP? And really before TUF 1 Matt Hughes was hardly what you'd call a "draw" and now he's one of the most popular guys. Same with BJ Penn and Rich Franklin.

And I don't think you can say Anderson's star was created in PRIDE either, not like Wandy or Shogun or Nog. I mean, the guy hadn't fought there for two years before he got to the UFC and he'd been fighting primarily in Cage Rage before that.

 GSP, Hughes, Penn and Franklin were all top UFC guys before TUF came around. Anderson was the middleweight champ of Cage Rage when that actually meant something, I think the fact that he came in, plowed through one opponent in under a minute and then fought for the title all but proves he was brought in as a proven contender, not a project to be developed.


Were you not around in 2005?

Hughes and Penn were established, I'll give you that, but Penn was only a big name to hardcores pre-TUF because he'd fucked off to K1 at that point, remember?

GSP wasn't a star by any means at that stage. He was seen as the top prospect at WW, but he'd just been beaten by Hughes and didn't really start taking off as a proper star till after he shitkicked Trigg and Sherk in late 2005. And Franklin pre-TUF had all of three fights in the UFC! It wasn't until the TUF Finale when he beat Ken that he even got a push from Zuffa. To say GSP and Franklin were established pre-TUF is fucking idiotic.


If you're going to call someone an idiot, you should probably have your own shit in order first.

GSP had already fought for the title prior to TUF, if he had won he would have been a champion, and by default would have been headlining ppvs. He was already an established in the UFC, beating Hughes propelled him into the limelight.

Rich Franklin you have a better case, though even he had already beat Evan Tanner, who was an established star. But Franklin was better known after beating Shamrock, which coincided with TUF.

The problem based on your join date is you don't have that much context for MMA prior to TUF. So you say things like "only hardcore" MMA fans knew who BJ Penn was, when at the time the audience was a fraction of what it is now. Back then "hardcore" fans were the majority.

JimmersonzGlove - 
CindyO - 
JimmersonzGlove - 
DiscoNfrno -  Decision Dan isn't a draw.  I couldn't care less if I never see him fight again.

So the UFC can't create stars? He's headlined 3 or so Zuffa era UFCs including the highest rated one on TV, he's coached TUF, and he got the best KO on the most watched UFC PPV of all time. He's not a star now?

 


 



Talent>Being a star



Cindy
I don't understand your point.

 


 

He has more talent than star power and gives folks a reason to watch even though he isn't quite a draw.



Unlike Tito, Dan doesn't really market himself and is a horrible promoter of his brand (selling himself in a manner that sells tickets). Tito wasn't brought back because he was talented- it was to keep Strikeforce from gaining a star that puts asses in seats.



I love watching Dan compete but he's gotta step his game up in the self-marketing department if he wants more money because its a vital part of a successful career in this sport.



His talent > his star power right now.



Cindy

I can't believe with all the fights not happening he wouldn't want to sign Dan just to have some big fights. If Anderson is out anyway, and they're hurting for a big fight, Dan vs Nate would be a great fight, both coming off highlight reel KO wins, and it would fill a gap where Zuffa would be paying 2 other fighters a great amount too.