When you are rolling and achieve back mount, do you ever decide to flatten them by arching your back and sprawling your legs, in order to totally immobilize them? If yes, then why so? If not, then why not?
What are the pros and cons of doing so?
What others methods do you like for maintaining the back mount?
Serious and intelligent replies only please.
Thanks in advance.
ttt
If I am firmly on their back on top with hooks and I have both my arms under their armpits then yes I will attempt to flatten my opponent out to seriously decrease his mobility and leverage for escaping. That is the pro. The con is that it can be very hard to do on a very strong opponent and sometimes it is not worth the energy expenditure vs. simply staying on the back with the harness position and going where he goes.
In my experience it is very hard to get your opponent to the point where you can flatten him if he is skilled. There is no reason for him to even allow that because the second you get both hooks in he can roll and put you under him so he at least has more leverage than he would if he was flattened out.
I also find that when I have been flattened in the past it was pretty easy to escape from and pretty easy to defend chokes from so long as punching isn't involved. In fact that position probably makes the most sense in a mma/vale tudo situation where you can pummel them to open up the choke.
Personally, I like that position very much. Recently, I've been having a much easier time getting the rear naked choke from that position (and also from when we're facing the ceiling, actually). His arms are so stuck that it's hard for him to defend against the choke.
I flatten them out, tie up one arm, and wait for the other arm to push on the ground so that I can enter the RNC without any obstacles.
If you have long legs or good flexibilty, i think the best backmount position to master is a good triangle lock on the body, it can help wind the opponent much faster and possibly even tap them if you are powerful enough.
i've been having success going from body trianle to armbar from backmount. it is a really cool technique and most people get so worried about the triangle and the choke attempts that the armbar almost sets itself up.
DMT
If the guy is flattened with your hooks in, you can hip into his lower back and force him to raise his head for the RNC. In other words, if his legs are off the mat and his hips are touching the mat, he has to raise his head
to ease the strain.
"If the guy is flattened with your hooks in, you can hip into his lower back and force him to raise his head for the RNC. In other words, if his legs are off the mat and his hips are touching the mat, he has to raise his head to ease the strain."
If you are wearing a cup, I feel sorry for the guy underneath.
True: I just drill this for practice: I don't like to do it full on to my sparing partners.
Great advice guys.
Keep the advice coming.
If I have the Garcia/harness grip, how do you get them in this position if you are on your backs. Sometimes I have a hard time finishing when our backs are to the floor. If he somehow rolls over belly first and I can flatten him out then I can usually finish. I'd like a way to 'sweep' him over belly first.
Also once he is belly down, how do you prevent him from rolling out (ie you end mounting him instead).
Thanks
Keeping them flat is the best backmount imo.
Most guys are better at defending when they are belly up, so why let them get there if you don't have to? Much better to flatten them out. Also, if you put enough pressure (eg. do it properly) it is almost impossible to get out, or even move.
If you think about it, the only way to get out of it is to roll to belly up, or raise up a leg to get hook out, or come to knees and try something like removing a hook from there. All of these are pretty much impossible if you are pinned flat and cannot raise your hips.
It also seriously restricts the movment and defence of his hands by pinnng them, and taking away the space under his chest, and really limits how much defence he can mount.
I always try to flatten them out. It is really uncomfortable to be on the bottom when you are flattened out. As it is already hard to breath, chokes are easier to hit.
If you think about it, the only way to get out of it is to roll to belly up, or raise up a leg to get hook out, or come to knees and try something like removing a hook from there. All of these are pretty much impossible if you are pinned flat and cannot raise your hips.
These are not the only ways to get out.
Anyway as Mike Jen says in his back escape instructional there is no reason to get flattened out from the back. This points to a lack of experience in people who let it happen. The second both hooks are in from the turtle the person on the bottom should be rolling to the belly up position.
I prefer my opponent to be belly up as I find that I get more options..at least while wearing the gi. Going
for the rnc/combination gi chokes/armbars.
Flattening them out belly down feels more dominant but
I find it more difficult to finish also. My feet are trapped under my opponent so I cant really move either
and I find it hard to sink in any type of gi choke if I didnt get my grips in before he flattens out. But
thats just me.
I did like some of the suggestions posted. Ill give em
a shot.
glad to see my thread resurrected.