A discernible difference between Muay Thai and Savate seems to be the pace. You have to have tremendous cardio to keep up the savate pace and there doesn't seem to be real attempt to capitalize on the opponents mistake or shortcomings.
Muay Thai fighters stalk there opponents and waste little effort. Any openings is attacked with a maximum amount of force.
I can easily see a Savate fighter confusing a Muay Thai fighter and breaking his rhythm.
Great stuff either way.
jujubre - La canne de combat...
those guys would be deadly with single/dbl stick training on the street
jujubre -what - Savat.
nice stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqYeDCAO2Hg
^This is Craig Gemeiner. He's an Australian savate/le canne guy who, like Eric Quequet and Robert Paturel, really focuses on the street/self-defense aspects of both arts. He's got a dvd out on street kicking that's really excellent, and the clip above is taken from his le canne vigny dvd.
ttt
I don't get it. Was it a demonstration or an actual competition?
Went to a seminar years ago by Salem Assli.
Some interesting stuff that could work in the right context. And a lot that would not IMO.
More sport than MA, but I am sure that there are teachers can show you the stuff from the docks.
word
e. kaye - Went to a seminar years ago by Salem Assli.
Some interesting stuff that could work in the right context. And a lot that would not IMO.
If I'm not mistaken, Assli was introduced to savate by Dan Inosanto and basically self-taught his way through the instructor ranks. I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but I've never heard mention of him having fought, either.
Nicholas Saignac is someone who's seminar(s) I'd like to attend someday.
e. kaye - More sport than MA, but I am sure that there are teachers can show you the stuff from the docks.
If you're interested you should look into savate défense material. Guys like Robert Paturel and Eric Quequet(he's the guy in the video on the first page) have extensive amateur records(to my knowledge there is no professional savate organization) and now focus on teaching savate as self-defense. Both Paturel and Quequet run ADAC(academy of martial arts) in Paris. Paturel is also a member of RAID(somekind of national SWAT/anti-terrorist police force) and has been the head instructor of their defensive tactics program for sometime, if I'm not mistaken. Daniel Duby is supposed to be another legit guy who's preserving savate as a defensive/street fighting art. Apparently he taught at the Inosanto academy for awhile during the Vunak era, and it seems like he had/maintains a loose affiliation with Matt Thornton and the Straight Blast Gym. One of these days I'm gonna drop some $$$ on his set of instructionals.
In the meantime, however, here is Paturel's "Boxe de Rue" videos:
http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/398/
http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/397/
^The production value isn't that great, and it's more scenarios then technical instruction(ie: showing you the mechanics of a kick, for example), but I still enjoyed it and have included a lot of it into my own training.
Universl - Muay Thai fighters stalk there opponents and waste little effort. Any openings is attacked with a maximum amount of force.
I can easily see a Savate fighter confusing a Muay Thai fighter and breaking his rhythm.
Great stuff either way.
This is true, at least in my experience. Savate has a different rhythm and it gets a while to get used to it. Plus the liver kicks are brutal.
^but if clinching is allowed, then muay thai owns every other style on feet.
No diss to savate (which is a great art in its own right with plenty to offer any student of the science of striking), but back in the day they actually changed the rules of French/European savate competitions to stress pure savate techniques... precisely because Euro Muay Thai guys were entering those contests and beating the crap out of savateurs.
The more technical striker would implement the quicker footwork and more refined distancing of savate with the devastating power and brutal directness of muay thai (and you end up with something like Anderson Silva, ideally). But compared to each other based solely on their own merits, MT wins most of the time. There's very good reason why MT emerged as a fundamental striking art in MMA and savate (in and of itself) didn't.
I though Parkour was a French martial art that teaches you how to retreat from any place in the quickest fashion.
BigBadWolfMedia - I though Parkour was a French martial art that teaches you how to retreat from any place in the quickest fashion.
lol
Maxximus - No diss to savate (which is a great art in its own right with plenty to offer any student of the science of striking), but back in the day they actually changed the rules of French/European savate competitions to stress pure savate techniques... precisely because Euro Muay Thai guys were entering those contests and beating the crap out of savateurs.
Source?
I ask not because I doubt it, but rather because I heard something along the same lines regarding le canne. That even in competitions the French place a lot of emphasis on the artistic value and visual appearance of the art as opposed to being strictly concerned about performance/fighting functionality.
Knowing the Dutch muay thai tradition and how they like to compete in savate and kyokushin, I can see why the French, even from the early days of boxe francaise, would have removed the clinch/wrestling game from savate in favor of the faster, more mobile style/game they have today. Yet, I've often wondered why they don't allow elbows/knees or shin kicks? Sure, the MT fighters would be more competitive/successful and the French savate organization would just hate that, but I think overall it would only help savate become more popular(at least here in America) while remaining unique(ie: the lack of clinching means the speed/pace, footwork, and beauty of savate stays the same).
Maxximus - The more technical striker would implement the quicker footwork and more refined distancing of savate with the devastating power and brutal directness of muay thai (and you end up with something like Anderson Silva, ideally). But compared to each other based solely on their own merits, MT wins most of the time. There's very good reason why MT emerged as a fundamental striking art in MMA and savate (in and of itself) didn't.
I don't think that's true at all. In terms of a base for mma I think it's really more to do with MT's popularity worldwide(as a way to fight professionally) and the fact that savate is virtually unknown outside of France/Belgium/Netherlands. As the Pennachio-Dekkers bout illustrates, savateurs, by way of their speed/footwork, tend to do well regardless of venue, and I've yet to hear anyone who's been sufficiently exposed to savate say it's not on par with MT or any other striking art.
I do, however, agree with the comment pertaining to Anderson Silva and patterning a standup game based on both savate and muay thai. The Blackhouse savate video I posted demonstrates the speed, footwork, and variety of techniques available in savate. If you combine that base/delivery system with the clinch/wrestling and devastating power of muay thai, the result is nothing short of amazing/scary.
These gifs of Anderson Silva say it all:
http://www.fightreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/anderson-silva_thales-leites_b.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Stickgrappler/mma/ufc97/ufc97-silvaXleites03.gif
Retreat 
Col thread guys. I feel dim for my smart aleck remarks above.
NateTurnedMaiaLightsOff - what are the differences between savate and kickboxing?
A difference that hasn't been mentioned is the kicks. Savateurs strike with their toes (if wearing shoes or -- even worse -- steel-toed work boots) or curl their toes back and strike with the balls of their feet. The idea is to penetrate into the body. If Muay Thai is like being hit by a bat, Savate is like being struck with a hammer.
The JKD I trained had a savate influence and, years later, I was MMA sparring with a BJJ blackbelt (who was also a really good striker). Without thinking I gave him a quick ball-of-the-foot strike (such a quick strike -- in and out, no emphasis on power) to the nerve cluster right above the knee, inside the leg (the same cluster newbies dig their elbows into when trying to break a BJJ guard and which he, as a BJJ black belt, was probably pretty desensitized to). As soon as i landed it, he got a really confused look on his face and lowered his arms. "That really hurt. What was that?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3oIfkNOpcE
^For anyone interested in savate defense. These guys maybe need a healthier respect for knives, but they seem to have the right idea when it comes to training for self-defense situations and inducing the adrenal state.
Lord Kancho -that sounds like a TKD style kick.NateTurnedMaiaLightsOff - what are the differences between savate and kickboxing?
A difference that hasn't been mentioned is the kicks. Savateurs strike with their toes (if wearing shoes or -- even worse -- steel-toed work boots) or curl their toes back and strike with the balls of their feet. The idea is to penetrate into the body. If Muay Thai is like being hit by a bat, Savate is like being struck with a hammer.
The JKD I trained had a savate influence and, years later, I was MMA sparring with a BJJ blackbelt (who was also a really good striker). Without thinking I gave him a quick ball-of-the-foot strike (such a quick strike -- in and out, no emphasis on power) to the nerve cluster right above the knee, inside the leg (the same cluster newbies dig their elbows into when trying to break a BJJ guard and which he, as a BJJ black belt, was probably pretty desensitized to). As soon as i landed it, he got a really confused look on his face and lowered his arms. "That really hurt. What was that?"
cool. thanks for your insight.