Without a central force maintaining standards, like egomaniacal Helio, belts will water down. Every B. Quick belt shop, every "he is a nice loyal student I will promote him" every guy doing "belt tests" for a fee, every "it doesnt matter, all belts are beginners until black" will make them weaker little by little. The path to TMA. They should be eliminated. 
formulate - Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue.
not rare, really?? where do you see this?
are you talking about situations where the white/blue belt is an elite competitor in another grappling style or some world class athlete?
or maybe the white/blue belt has been training bjj for 10 years and has just never been promoted?
elgringo -A lot of the black belts I know have definitely put their time in but it wouldn't surprise me when competitive blues and purples catch them. Of course as soon as that happens a lot blacks don't want to train with the guy anymore... Mostly because you'll here others talking about it.formulate - Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue.
not rare, really?? where do you see this?
are you talking about situations where the white/blue belt is an elite competitor in another grappling style or some world class athlete?
or maybe the white/blue belt has been training bjj for 10 years and has just never been promoted?
MMAKnowledge,
You bring up an excellent point. But I think the belt system should be view with the original intent in mind.
One of the unfortunate downfalls of a belt system in martial arts is it forces comparison among the students when the belt system (it seems to me) was originally meant for the individual student to measure his or her own progress as well as have a goal to aspire to.
It is nice to have something tangible or at least representative of ones progress in Bjj. We all start from somewhere and it would be nice to have something to show we have move on from the place where we started. Of course this is all completely individual because where I started from may have been a different place then where you or my peers have started from and vice versa. So if I compare myself to you or you to me than of course there may be some obvious difference BUT that doesn't or shouldn't negate the fact that you and I have progress from where we were when we first started and our belt are representative of that progress.
For me belts are completely individual and I don't assume they mean anything more than that person has put in the time and has progress over time. A belt doesn't necessarily mean one is good or elite level in terms of competitive skill.
m.g - MMAKnowledge,
You bring up an excellent point. But I think the belt system should be view with the original intent in mind.
One of the unfortunate downfalls of a belt system in martial arts is it forces comparison among the students when the belt system (it seems to me) was originally meant for the individual student to measure his or her own progress as well as have a goal to aspire to.
It is nice to have something tangible or at least representative of ones progress in Bjj. We all start from somewhere and it would be nice to have something to show we have move on from the place where we started. Of course this is all completely individual because where I started from may have been a different place then where you or my peers have started from and vice versa. So if I compare myself to you or you to me than of course there may be some obvious difference BUT that doesn't or shouldn't negate the fact that you and I have progress from where we were when we first started and our belt are representative of that progress.
For me belts are completely individual and I don't assume they mean anything more than that person has put in the time and has progress over time. A belt doesn't necessarily mean one is good or elite level in terms of competitive skill.
Well said!
"black belt is just the last beginner belt!!"
Well said! I also like the
"Black belt is a white belt who never quit!"
Dan gable would go until some beat him in practice than go work on cardio. Leaving the desire not to lose in his mind for the next practice. This kept him always moving forward. To many Jiujitsu higher ranks are worried that they will look bad and lose students. The mind set needs to change not the belt system. Just go out and roll. Your students and teammates will respect you more. Don't try to be undefeated. It just makes it look like your are scared.
kulprt - Dan gable would go until some beat him in practice than go work on cardio. Leaving the desire not to lose in his mind for the next practice. This kept him always moving forward. To many Jiujitsu higher ranks are worried that they will look bad and lose students. The mind set needs to change not the belt system. Just go out and roll. Your students and teammates will respect you more. Don't try to be undefeated. It just makes it look like your are scared.I agree. I think some let the belts hold them back.
formulate - Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue. Is it cause the sport is spreading so fast? Is it cause the black belts are weaker in terms of relative knowledge to a whitebelt? I don't know.
lol, no
M.G has it right. The belts are there for you. They are not there for gym's sewing circle to gossip about a purple tapping a brown or a white tapping a blue. Your belt is not the same as my belt. There is not a strict guideline for what makes a certain belt. When i see a black or a brown, i don't look at the guy as unstoppable and i wouldn't think bad of him for being tapped by a lower belt. When i see a Black or a Brown all i think is, Fuck, that guys has put the work in, he has paid his dues and i need to learn from him. I fished semi pro for a while and jiu jitsu circles are exactly the same as the pro fishing tournament scene. when you get any large group of dudes together, it always turns into a pissing contest. everyone in jiu jitsu likes to talk about checking their ego at the door but i don't think a lot of guys know what that means. that or they forgot somewhere along the ride. if you guys spent half the time you do worrying about everyone elses belt on bettering your game you would all have fucking black belts and it would be a moot point.
I think the belt raking should go because I have to pay for my belt. I don't agree with this approach. I also don't care about my belt and would happily maintain the current ranking that I have however I am getting pressured to grade.
omoplautistic - I can understand that. To be honest, once i got my black the whole belt thing seemed sort of bizarre but necessary. Like i looked at all my lower belted training partners and thought," lets just give these guys black belts and get on with training, they aren't going anywhere".
that said, the belt system is better as a rule, not to describe the exceptions to the rule. There's a huge difference between a lily white belt and a 3 striper...most often.
black belt is just the last beginner belt.
Good post man, I agree completely.
formulate - Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue. Is it cause the sport is spreading so fast? Is it cause the black belts are weaker in terms of relative knowledge to a whitebelt? I don't know.A black belt who taps to a white belt is not a black belt.
For some reason, this reminds me of a story my old Aikido teacher told us. --Settle in for Uncle Shen's nerdy TMA story of the week!
It was about a guy who did Aikido in the early days. The student was very good but never wanted to test so he never got promoted, held no rank whatsoever.
One day, Ueshiba himself (the founder of Aikido) came through to dojo of one of his top Aikido instructors. He noticed the one guy's excellent Aikido and said to his instructor, "who is this, how long has he been training?"
The instructor said, "Oh, this is so-and-so he has been training with me for about 20 years, he's a white belt"
Ueshiba was surprised and said "well, he's a fourth degree black belt now."
The teacher called over his student and told him he was now one of the higher ranked Aikido practitioners in the area. The guy said "Domo arigato" and went right back to training.
"Like Royce says: a belt only covers 2 inches of your ass"
It's very interesting who said this quote.
Not to be a hater, (I appreciate what Royce has done for BJJ) but Royce is known to not train very much, and he has also never had any major tournament wins.
Let's ask his brother Royler if he thinks a black belt is important.
Hell, lets ask Andre Galvao, Mendes Brothers, Marcelo Garcia, Roger Gracie if a black belt was important to them.
I'm guessing they would say it was extremely important.
Why?
Because they trained their asses off to get it, and put it on the line every weekend in tournaments to prove how important their belts were.
mjm345 - Speaking as a black belt, go fuck yourself
BOOM!!
BJJ is so special and unique because of the journey to black belt. The journey is long and difficult not only due to the volume of detail and the amount of concepts to grasp; not only due to the extreme and persistent physicality involved; but also the mental aspect. The days where you feel like you know nothing (even after a decade of training) / the days where you feel on top of the world. Dealing with the mental struggle is a big part of progressing in BJJ. I think this really gets overlooked. But I can tell you this: When you get to the black belt after giving your life to the art, there is no greater feeling. I was "high on life" (a phrase I never understood) for 2 full weeks after getting mine. I walked around like I was on a cloud the whole time. So much struggle and determination and doubt and challenge - all overcome. A huge goal accomplished. Something that is impossible to understand until you get there.
It is my new white belt. I learn something new everyday.
The problem doing without belts, is that there is no oversight, accreditation organization for BJJ which validates a persons BJJ knowledge. Having a BB from a legitimate lineage lets the a prospective student know that you are qualified to teach. It would be much easier for a person to misrepresent their qualifications without the belt system.