I read that initially Gracie Jiu Jitsu had only two belts, blue for instructors and white for students. It seems pretty simple.
I have rolled with blues who have felt like browns and browns that feel like blues. Why not just have no belts. It would be nice to not have to think about who deserves what. Just rank for the instructors and the respect for them for being good teachers. Competitors / students can earn their respect through competition.
Like Royce says: a belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. 
Easy to say when you haven't earned a black belt.
ya, i'll just trade my black in for a blue, great idea.
I'll be the terror of the intermediate division.
I am brown... I don't really want to be black or brown. I don't like the added pressure of having to be good all the time. I shouldn't be black. There are good purple that can beat me and good blues that can sometimes give me trouble. There are also browns that I can beat relatively easy. The whole thing seems to be a bunch of crap.
I can understand that. To be honest, once i got my black the whole belt thing seemed sort of bizarre but necessary. Like i looked at all my lower belted training partners and thought," lets just give these guys black belts and get on with training, they aren't going anywhere".
that said, the belt system is better as a rule, not to describe the exceptions to the rule. There's a huge difference between a lily white belt and a 3 striper...most often.
black belt is just the last beginner belt.
black belt is just the last beginner belt.
..well said
Coming from a Muay Thai and FMA background that absolutely has no ranking system, I get where MMA Knowledge is coming from.
One merit I see with belts is for tournament purposes only.
Speaking as a black belt, go fuck yourself
Seriously though why do you care? If it doesn't mean anything or you think it's stupid, don't train with the gi or don't worry about it. It's not like anyone else's rank impacts you negatively.
mjm345 - Seriously though why do you care? If it doesn't mean anything or you think it's stupid, don't train with the gi or don't worry about it. It's not like anyone else's rank impacts you negatively.I think all the belts get in the way of training for many people. There are a lot of people I know who insist that they should not tap to lower belts. When they do it seems to destroy them. I have also heard people talk a lot about it anytime a black belt taps. It makes black belts have to be more cautious about rolling with people. It is way better to just train with as many people as possible. That is what I do, and generally could care less who taps me. The only people I don't go easy on are the ones who make a big deal about who they tap.
The belts are a pedagogic tool. If some people get obsessed with them. They have a problem, not the tool. You should not assign value in what color of belt they use, as the many other superficial things that exist outside MA. Do you treat your newbie coworkers like crap just because you happen to be there longer?
About the two belts system, they served their purpose at the time, it was a much smaller circle, they had a 40 lesson curriculum that was supposed to encompass it. The instructors could teach it to the newbies and the professors would give the orders. It was not a sport, when it become also a sport belts become a measurement of progress beyond those initial 40 lessons.
Gus77 - The belts are a pedagogic tool. If some people get obsessed with them. They have a problem, not the tool. You should not assign value in what color of belt they use, as the many other superficial things that exist outside MA. Do you treat your newbie coworkers like crap just because you happen to be there longer?Good post. I think many put too much weight on the whole stupid thing. When I first started I remember people acting like brown and black belts were demigods... As a brown belt I have people that act like I must be awesome because of the dumb piece of fabric that I wear. I am pretty good but there are times when I feel like burning the damn thing and just wearing a blue belt.
About the two belts system, they served their purpose at the time, it was a much smaller circle, they had a 40 lesson curriculum that was supposed to encompass it. The instructors could teach it to the newbies and the professors would give the orders. It was not a sport, when it become also a sport belts become a measurement of progress beyond those initial 40 lessons.
On other hand I think if anybody don't want ot be part of the system they could have the option to use a neutral belt like the yellow and green used in competition in the past for diferention and never be ranked. Could only compete based on time or on the advance division like Josh Barnett. Since is kind rare to have these belts laying around, they could just use the whitebelt when using gi since they don't have egos. All of this at the discretion of the gym.
Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue. Is it cause the sport is spreading so fast? Is it cause the black belts are weaker in terms of relative knowledge to a whitebelt? I don't know.
mjm345 - Speaking as a black belt, go fuck yourselfNot a black belt, but this.
I think that there are positive and negative sides to having a belt system.
The positive side is that it gives people goals to achieve. It is natural for people to want to see progression in the activities that they pursue. It is kind of like the degree program in education. People work for their high school diploma, AA degree, BA degree, masters degree, etc. It keeps people motivated and gives them something to work for.
Belts exist for the same reason that BJJ tournaments exist. The original focus on BJJ was fighting. We all know the history of the challenge matches. However, the majority of people that train in BJJ do not want to actually get into fights but still want to see how they compare to others that train. So tournaments began and it gave practitioners a safe place to compete. The belt system exists for the same reason. How do I rate compared to the others that I train with and how am I progressing in the art.
The negative side of the belt system is that people tend to focus on earning the next belt instead of focusing on just learning. I saw this during the many years that I spent training in Tang Soo Do. People just wanted to learn what was needed to test for the next belt instead of training to just learn and get better. I see this same obsession with belts throughout BJJ.
Having trained in Muay Thai I must admit that I did really enjoy the fact that it does not have a ranking system. When you want to find out how you are progressing, you simply step into the ring and spar. With all of life's stresses, it was nice just being able to enjoy training.
eveyone should worry about themselves.. tap or dont tap, lower belt higher belt, geez more and more threads on here trying to call for "change". as sport bjj becomes more prevelantthe chances of seeing more belts added, like the kids belts have been, is much more likely. if you wanna train, train and wear the belt your teacher gives you. who are any of us to say anything about it?
formulate - Well, we've watched it happen. A black belt used to be an unstoppable force. Now it is not a rare event to see a black tap to a white belt or a blue. Is it cause the sport is spreading so fast? Is it cause the black belts are weaker in terms of relative knowledge to a whitebelt? I don't know.
It's not? Without the black allowing the position to occur? It's extremely rare when the BB is trying and not giving positions.
Oldcop - I think that there are positive and negative sides to having a belt system.I love Muay Thai and boxing for that exact same reason.
The positive side is that it gives people goals to achieve. It is natural for people to want to see progression in the activities that they pursue. It is kind of like the degree program in education. People work for their high school diploma, AA degree, BA degree, masters degree, etc. It keeps people motivated and gives them something to work for.
Belts exist for the same reason that BJJ tournaments exist. The original focus on BJJ was fighting. We all know the history of the challenge matches. However, the majority of people that train in BJJ do not want to actually get into fights but still want to see how they compare to others that train. So tournaments began and it gave practitioners a safe place to compete. The belt system exists for the same reason. How do I rate compared to the others that I train with and how am I progressing in the art.
The negative side of the belt system is that people tend to focus on earning the next belt instead of focusing on just learning. I saw this during the many years that I spent training in Tang Soo Do. People just wanted to learn what was needed to test for the next belt instead of training to just learn and get better. I see this same obsession with belts throughout BJJ.
Having trained in Muay Thai I must admit that I did really enjoy the fact that it does not have a ranking system. When you want to find out how you are progressing, you simply step into the ring and spar. With all of life's stresses, it was nice just being able to enjoy training.