I am by no means any kind of expert on this, but it leaves me curious after most fight cards. I have been training for around 4 years in BJJ but don't do any striking. I watch MMA and sometimes Im confused by how ignorant many guys seem to be of even the basics of BJJ. The most extreme example that comes to mind is Emanuel Newton against Liam Mcgeary
I'm not wondering why mma guys aren't trying high level sport stuff that are either risky or downright crazy when strikes are involved, but I just don't get why some guys don't seem to have any understanding of guard retention, shrimping, passes, basic subs, etc.
Am I missing something here? What do you guys think of the overall BJJ of mma fighters?
I was thinking just the same whilst watching last night. Obviously one hard shot to the head can change your priorities and send the basics out of the window, but even so I'm surprised at some of the basics that don't seem to happen. Worst last night was aj's bottom half guard, his best idea seemed to be throwing punches! 
I don't think anybody trains bjj for mma all that much anymore, I think it's all wrestling,striking and just standing back up if you get taken down 
try doing grappling with strikes a few times...and then come back and repost.
nowaydo - try doing grappling with strikes a few times...and then come back and repost.
Im way too pretty to be getting punched in the face, but you clearly missed my point. There are often times where strikes haven't really entered the equation in a meaningful way and the grappling still stinks.You can't blame all the shortcomings on striking being in the equation. I concede it is very different, but not completely.
I think MMA grappling is a product of the current rules. I'm not saying it's bad or good but people are going to game whatever rules system is in place.
If the rules of the game say One can stall on bottom for a standup, you can bet their going to do it. Likewise, if you can stay in top half and throw elbows, their going to do it.
Why learn intricate moves that have little bearing on how your job performance is scored. I guess in short, they do as little as they have to to score or stall for a standup
I started off in BJJ and as a blue transitioned into MMA. MMA is a different sport entirely. Sure there is crossover, but a lot of the sport spinning around like a cockroach on your back will result in you getting battered. Good BJJ helps (see Jacare) but nowadays being on top is the absolute most important thing. Not playing guard, but getting back to your feet. At the higher levels nobody does shit from their guard anymore except get pounded on. There are exceptions every now ams then but it is rare. The takedown is king.
And to your point, when on top it is easier to slip out of submissions so your technique doesn't have to be as good. And when getting punched in the face a lot of stuff doesnt work or is too risky.
ChipW - I think MMA grappling is a product of the current rules. I'm not saying it's bad or good but people are going to game whatever rules system is in place.
If the rules of the game say One can stall on bottom for a standup, you can bet their going to do it. Likewise, if you can stay in top half and throw elbows, their going to do it.
Why learn intricate moves that have little bearing on how your job performance is scored. I guess in short, they do as little as they have to to score or stall for a standup
I agree that is part of it. That is definitely why guys don't have submissions from their back because it doesn't pay under the current scoring system, but then why don't guys develop amazing sweeps and technical escapes from side control and mount to get out from the bottom?
I just cant find a logical answer for it. Is it just that there isnt enough time to develop anything more than a limited set of techniques that sometimes aren't applicable in a specific fight. I don't know though, it just seems like limited bjj training even a few times a week, few hours a day, would be able to yield a decent skill set.
Guys don't have submissions of their backs because they flat out can't get them. The guard is pretty much dead in MMA. The goal now is to get back to your feet.
If people could get subs from their back they would. But they can't. Everyone is too good now and when you are on your back getting blasted in the face and the other guy is sweety as hell, subs are extremely difficult to get.
Takedowns are king and playing guard is nothing but a losing proposition these days besides a few exceptions.
The problem is we just now are coming into the era of hybrids. Guys like Weidman who are learning striking but have D1 wrestling credentials and a bjj black belt. Even now its still possible to be great at one aspect of the game but barely ok at others. Demian Maia for example still has striking so shitty Golden Gloves kids tourney competitors could eat him alive as a example. Add in these things come in circles, hell it wasn't too long ago that everyone was rejoicing that bjj was back due to slick groundwork and takedowns being used. The real thing is that fanboys need to realize that bjj is not the end all ultimate martial art for mma as it was originally portrayed. It is a essential skill that is needed but you CAN be successful while being crappy at it. The same goes for having good muy thai, wrestling, boxing, etc. It is more about how you match up for your best attributes to win.
nowaydo - try doing grappling with strikes a few times...and then come back and repost.I grapple with strikes every Tuesday night.
Don't you all include at least light strikes in your training, you know, just in case you find yourself being punched?
I don't buy it that the rules are the sole reason for this. Being on your back is obviously death in an mma fight because the judges will rule against you unless you get the sub. However, there are even distinct limitations and technical problems on top.
Just as a recent example, Daniel Cormier could have easily passed to side control on Johnson any time he wanted, but elected to stay in half guard. I understand that Half Guard is a really good ground and pound position, but Cormier was looking for a Kimura from half instead of easily sliding over toe side control. Thats a really small example because I got the feeling he wasn't fully invested in the kimura, but it still shows a pretty basic failing of a guy that could be much better at sub grappling given his wrestling background.
Gaius Marius - I don't buy it that the rules are the sole reason for this. Being on your back is obviously death in an mma fight because the judges will rule against you unless you get the sub. However, there are even distinct limitations and technical problems on top.He didn't want to lose half guard because he could control better from there. In side control Rumble could have slipped out much easier. A BJJ guy likely would have gone for the pass, but wrestlers generally like top side control and often avoid putting hooks in the back to prevent a reversal. And yes the rules don't encourage passing as much if you are able to effectively ground and pound from top side control.
Just as a recent example, Daniel Cormier could have easily passed to side control on Johnson any time he wanted, but elected to stay in half guard. I understand that Half Guard is a really good ground and pound position, but Cormier was looking for a Kimura from half instead of easily sliding over toe side control. Thats a really small example because I got the feeling he wasn't fully invested in the kimura, but it still shows a pretty basic failing of a guy that could be much better at sub grappling given his wrestling background.
*I meant wrestlers like top half guard due to the control
TexDeuce - *I meant wrestlers like top half guard due to the control"He's looking to get back to half guard here." Rogan say's
"He's got him in the Turk joe!" Say's Goldie
TexDeuce - *I meant wrestlers like top half guard due to the control
I agree with his decision to stay in half guard for keeping Johnson from getting up, but trying the kimura from half guard rather than getting to side is what confused me. It just seemed like unsound strategy. If he was only focused on ground and pound, then staying in half guard seems to be the way to go, but he just seemed like he didn't know that the kimura from half is pretty low percentage.
Gaius Marius -TexDeuce - *I meant wrestlers like top half guard due to the control
I agree with his decision to stay in half guard for keeping Johnson from getting up, but trying the kimura from half guard rather than getting to side is what confused me. It just seemed like unsound strategy. If he was only focused on ground and pound, then staying in half guard seems to be the way to go, but he just seemed like he didn't know that the kimura from half is pretty low percentage.
your problem is you are thinking tournament bjj strategy. Him attempting the sub had shit to do with him actually going for it, it was more to both stay busy so judges don't stand you up and to also make AJ work more to decrease his energy so he could open him up for either more effective G&P or instead a better sub (he has great darces and arm triangles btw).
That I think is the problem w some grapplers, be they fans or even in mma. They think too much w tourney strategy bjj where standups don't happen and you never have to worry about strikes. Add in those pressures and that changes your submission game up if you are good at least. It is why the guard in some aspects is static at times as guys act like they have all day to work there and will be chill vs going proactive and being attacking like say a Aoki.
Huge difference when playing guard. Its much harder to setup a subtle slow setup while worrying about being punched.
Also the guy in top may try to just stall and press in a lot. Another bjj guy will open up more and try to pass.
That being said the level of bjj in mma IS really poor. A lot of A class athletes get away with it for a long time because its hard to make them pay for it. So then they make it big and play catch up. By that point its hard to convince them what they've been doing is wrong.
I see a lot of low level mma fighters with atrocious bjj and they get crushed. So bad that i have to wonder why they even bother getting in the cage without even the basics down.
Age of the athlete. Just have good athleticism, and you don't need technical striking or great bjj. Strength and conditioning become more important. As bj Penn said "it's ultimate kickboxing with takedowns"...
Just get the takedown and stay on top. Why would you go for s sub and risk reversal when the judges don't value sub attempts anyways..
FreestyleJJ - Huge difference when playing guard. Its much harder to setup a subtle slow setup while worrying about being punched.
Also the guy in top may try to just stall and press in a lot. Another bjj guy will open up more and try to pass.
That being said the level of bjj in mma IS really poor. A lot of A class athletes get away with it for a long time because its hard to make them pay for it. So then they make it big and play catch up. By that point its hard to convince them what they've been doing is wrong.
I see a lot of low level mma fighters with atrocious bjj and they get crushed. So bad that i have to wonder why they even bother getting in the cage without even the basics down.
That being said the level of _________ in mma IS really poor (fill in with boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, judo or BJJ)
I see a lot of low level mma fighters with atrocious ________and they get crushed. So bad that i have to wonder why they even bother getting in the cage without even the basics down. (fill in with boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, judo or BJJ)
It's MMA.