How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
I understand that you are hedging against this in your comment but let's not pretend here like you just take a supplement as if you might feel like trying a sausage and cheese plate at a potluck. Thought as to what a supplement is and what it will do to your body are obviously considered before taking it and part of that for anyone with absolutely any sense would be checking to make sure it, you know, won't irreparably damage your reputation and take away your livelihood for possibly years while serving a suspension. You're right that technically it's not impossible for someone to be that careless and dumb but it is quite clear that it's far more likely at this point when someone is caught taking something illegal that they are trying to gain an unfair advantage rather than unbelievably careless with their career. And truthfully this is all moot because we're talking about this at the moment because of the diuretic that Cyborg tested positive for and that certainly isn't some supplement with a bunch of ingredients.
EKPOGI - ^who was ever tested positive or flagged for viagra?
Viagra; aka dick pills
dick pills aren't banned.Anderson and Jones used it as an excuse that they are tainted.But they got flagged for the anti-estrogen not the dick pills.It's the new excuse just like tainted supplements.
EKPOGI - ^who was ever tested positive or flagged for viagra?
Viagra; aka dick pills
dick pills aren't banned.Anderson and Jones used it as an excuse that they are tainted.But they got flagged for the anti-estrogen not the dick pills.It's the new excuse just like tainted supplements.
I just searched "tainted dick pills" and there are still no results. I can't believe how hard it is to find out what is banned and what isn't. How can we expect anyone to pass this incredibly difficult test?
How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
I understand that you are hedging against this in your comment but let's not pretend here like you just take a supplement as if you might feel like trying a sausage and cheese plate at a potluck. Thought as to what a supplement is and what it will do to your body are obviously considered before taking it and part of that for anyone with absolutely any sense would be checking to make sure it, you know, won't irreparably damage your reputation and take away your livelihood for possibly years while serving a suspension. You're right that technically it's not impossible for someone to be that careless and dumb but it is quite clear that it's far more likely at this point when someone is caught taking something illegal that they are trying to gain an unfair advantage rather than unbelievably careless with their career. And truthfully this is all moot because we're talking about this at the moment because of the diuretic that Cyborg tested positive for and that certainly isn't some supplement with a bunch of ingredients.
Agree completely with your post.
Maybe my example was a bad one, or possibly I just have a failed argument. Regardless, OP's statement "Any athlete who claims they "didn't know" a substance was banned is lying. Period" is horseshit. Is it possible a lot of athletes in this situation are lying? Absolutely. Does it mean ALL of them are lying, period? Absolutely not.
Of course athletes can just call and ask. If they don't do this, it makes them irresponsible. Maybe even stupid. But not liars.
Thats the only point i take I take issue with. The system is not perfect.
"Of course athletes can just call and ask. If they don't do this, it makes them irresponsible. Maybe even stupid. But not liars. "
They don't even have to do that.
They can type into google: "spironolactone wada" and there it will be (the very first hit: "spironolactone - Wada Prohibited List › S5. Diuretics and Masking Agents").
They can go to the WADA page and type "spironolactone" into the search box at the top of the first and every page.
They can look at the paper copy of the banned list they were issued by USADA and run their finger down the list -- it's alphabetical -- until they find or don't find their drug.
They can open the banned list document they were sent by USADA or the one on the WADA page and hit "CTRL-F" and the drug name.
This is their careers. They have potentially millions of dollars on the line. They have managers, agent, trainers, coaches, friends, family, and doctors.
So no, I don't believe that there is ever a case where neither the athlete nor any of those people I listed can be bothered to spend the few SECONDS it takes to do any of those things I listed.
How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
Ok. I'll go with your supposition.
I'm wanting to take this supplants. It's in English and I don't know the ingredients or if they are banned.
Do you:
1. Take it anyway, it's more important than the consequences?
2. Call USADA to ask?
3. Throw it out, not worth the risk?
if a pro fighter opts for #1, too bad. Deal with those consequences.
How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
I understand that you are hedging against this in your comment but let's not pretend here like you just take a supplement as if you might feel like trying a sausage and cheese plate at a potluck. Thought as to what a supplement is and what it will do to your body are obviously considered before taking it and part of that for anyone with absolutely any sense would be checking to make sure it, you know, won't irreparably damage your reputation and take away your livelihood for possibly years while serving a suspension. You're right that technically it's not impossible for someone to be that careless and dumb but it is quite clear that it's far more likely at this point when someone is caught taking something illegal that they are trying to gain an unfair advantage rather than unbelievably careless with their career. And truthfully this is all moot because we're talking about this at the moment because of the diuretic that Cyborg tested positive for and that certainly isn't some supplement with a bunch of ingredients.
Agree completely with your post.
Maybe my example was a bad one, or possibly I just have a failed argument. Regardless, OP's statement "Any athlete who claims they "didn't know" a substance was banned is lying. Period" is horseshit. Is it possible a lot of athletes in this situation are lying? Absolutely. Does it mean ALL of them are lying, period? Absolutely not.
Of course athletes can just call and ask. If they don't do this, it makes them irresponsible. Maybe even stupid. But not liars.
Thats the only point i take I take issue with. The system is not perfect.
I'll concede that some fighters may trust others to do this research for them (something they shouldn't be doing) but I continue to believe that we are talking an Ivory-billed woodpecker type of rarity that at least someone close to the fighter isn't trying to cheat. How in the world could any real professional not understand the gravity of how the testing is working now? You must report your whereabouts at all times and it very apparent how strick the testing is now. Just look at all of the high profile fighters that were suspended since USADA: BJ Penn, Machida, Mir, Jones, Lesnar... and more that I'm sure I'm forgetting. A year and a half ago it still wouldn't excuse it but I could at least see how it might happen that way as the system was so new. It's possible that someone can see all of that writing on the wall and still be ignorant, but I and (I assume) most others find it to be so absurd that it isn't really necessary to account for the very unlikely scenario in which still isn't a valid excuse because even if you didn't know, you should have. You can't really fault someone when they hear hoof beats for thinking of horses and not zebras.
How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
Ok. I'll go with your supposition.
I'm wanting to take this supplants. It's in English and I don't know the ingredients or if they are banned.
Do you:
1. Take it anyway, it's more important than the consequences?
2. Call USADA to ask?
3. Throw it out, not worth the risk?
if a pro fighter opts for #1, too bad. Deal with those consequences.
Absolutely. 2 and 3 are the only smart answers. Again, I'm only trying to refute OP's erroneous statement that if a fighter says they didn't know = automatic liar. Mistakes can be made. Even if a fighter chose the best option (in my opinion, option 2) there could still be mistakes. Misreading, mis-pronunciation, accidently missing an ingredient, etc. All of these things might make a fighter a dumb dumb, but not (necessarily) a liar.
Honestly, it's my fault for even commenting. After realizing who OP was (and knowing what a hard on he has for one fighter in particular), I should have just let it ride. I don't care to defend that fighter. My comments were in regards to all fighters in general, and not all of them who fail a test and claim negligence are liars.
No, they are still lying. USADA requires them to declare any medications AND supplements they have been taking, every time a sample is collected. Which busted athlete had declared any of their "tainted supplements" BEFORE being busted?
Whether it’s an in-competition or out-of-competition test, athletes are required to complete a doping control form during every sample collection session. On this form, athletes are required to declare any and all medications or supplements that they’ve ingested or used in the past seven days, and to certify that their declaration is accurate.
How many ingredients do you think are in the prescription? It's not a box of Oreos with 90 ingredients. It's one active ingredient.
What are she and her team so busy doing every second of every day that they can't type it in?
There is ZERO excuse and any athlete saying they didn't know is lying. At best they are so unbelievably unprofessional that they have no business competing at this level. What else are they taking "without knowing"?
lol @ "she forwarded the prohibited list to her doctor". How about just look on the list yourself, which is alphabetized, and see that what he is prescribing is on it?
The most bullshit story in the history of bullshit stories.
Maybe if you mean for this thread to be about Cris Cyborg you should have included it in the thread title or even your first post. I guess we've all now gathered that IS what (who) this thread about since she's just now immediately in the news. That's her problem to deal with. I'm not an advocate or hers, nor do I damn her.
I'm also not talking about just a single perscription.
Imagine wanting to take this supplement, not knowing english very well, and having to check if it's ok:
You guys can all go burn Cyborg at the stake if it pleases you. Knock yourself out. I have no deslire to defend her. I just disagree with you saying "any athlete that says they don't know is a liar" when it can easily be missed due to mistakes, especially language barrier.
NO, that should not be a valid excuse for a positive test
No, that does not excuse an athlete from taking a banned substance
Yes, it might possibly explain that they are not liars.
Ok. I'll go with your supposition.
I'm wanting to take this supplants. It's in English and I don't know the ingredients or if they are banned.
Do you:
1. Take it anyway, it's more important than the consequences?
2. Call USADA to ask?
3. Throw it out, not worth the risk?
if a pro fighter opts for #1, too bad. Deal with those consequences.
Absolutely. 2 and 3 are the only smart answers. Again, I'm only trying to refute OP's erroneous statement that if a fighter says they didn't know = automatic liar. Mistakes can be made. Even if a fighter chose the best option (in my opinion, option 2) there could still be mistakes. Misreading, mis-pronunciation, accidently missing an ingredient, etc. All of these things might make a fighter a dumb dumb, but not (necessarily) a liar.
Honestly, it's my fault for even commenting. After realizing who OP was (and knowing what a hard on he has for one fighter in particular), I should have just let it ride. I don't care to defend that fighter. My comments were in regards to all fighters in general, and not all of them who fail a test and claim negligence are liars.
Nothing OP has stated is erroneous.. you on the other hand...
