Funny how its always the same guys defending TLI
Look up what Lloyd said in court, and his defense all you need to know, but you know that already
Perhaps some people object to the brainless lynch mob mentality. I'm not a fan of lloyd Irvin. But I hate it when people refuse to think independently and simply pile on something like this even more. The fact that it has been taken to such an extreme makes one question the degree to which racism factors in as well.
misterw -Perhaps some people object to the brainless lynch mob mentality. I'm not a fan of lloyd Irvin. But I hate it when people refuse to think independently and simply pile on something like this even more. The fact that it has been taken to such an extreme makes one question the degree to which racism factors in as well.
Ohhhhh the RACE CARD.
Silhouette -SpiderManBJJ - First American Coach to produce a Black Belt World Champion(he produced 2). There was alot of chatter a few yers ago that he was finished because alot of his competitors left. The thing is, his homegrown competitors improved and the competitors that left didn't have as much success after they left. IMO Lloyd Irvin is the greatest American BJJ coach in history.So keenan didnt have success? Ryan Hall? Jordan?
Nope those guys suck right?
Keenan- Brown belt World Champion but hasn’t placed at BB.He has beat some good guys and not saying he isn’t top tier, but hehasn’t and won’t ever win a World Title. Even though his popularity increased, his trajectory actually plateaued after he left TLI if you judge by accomplishments. He went from not winning anything to winning everything after a year at LLoyds, then easily won the Brown Belt World Championship. After leaving LLoyds, he won alot of superfights and had some big wins mainly due to his niche use of the lapel but hasn’t continued the same level of success and continuous improvement that he did at Lloyd’s.
Ryan Hall- Well liked on the internet but actually hasn’t done much at BB. His ADCC placing was based on a technicality(he lost his first match but other competitors got injured. Most of his accomplishments were at lower belts.Honestly, when you go off accomplishments at BB, Ryan Hall is the top 3 most overrated grapplers in history IMO.
Jordon- I don’t even think he has competed as a BB and don’t thinkhe even trains anymore.
According to the internet, when the group went to ATOS, they were supposed to be world beaters because supposedly ATOS offered the environment to be MORE successful. The truth is that they actually accomplished less. Out of all the people that left, only JT had the huge accomplishment of winning ADCC. Everybody else reduced their progress. On the other hand, their homegrown talent that stayed continuously improved. Lloyd is the greatest American coach in BJJ history.
When it comes to Lloyd, his attackers ignore 3 facts:
1- The accused students were acquitted in the court of law when a jury actually heard the “facts” and reviewed the evidence.
2-The accused students were with him for less than a year. They trained for years at other academies prior.
3- In Lloyd’s 1990 case, the accuser’s own cousin said in court that she told him she lied.
SpiderManBJJ - When it comes to Lloyd, his attackers ignore 3 facts:1- The accused students were acquitted in the court of law when a jury actually heard the “facts” and reviewed the evidence.
2-The accused students were with him for less than a year. They trained for years at other academies prior.
3- In Lloyd’s 1990 case, the accuser’s own cousin said in court that she told him she lied.
1- carrying a drunk female to a parking lot, running a train, then leaving her on the ground unconscious(or too drunk to get up) and walking away. <— All on video. Not rape I guess.
2- What do you think that says about limp’s gym culture?
3- If your argument for #1 is "a jury found them ‘not guilty’" are you really gonna imply the other girl wasnt raped despite limp’s 4 co-rapists being convicted?
SpiderManBJJ -Silhouette -SpiderManBJJ - First American Coach to produce a Black Belt World Champion(he produced 2). There was alot of chatter a few yers ago that he was finished because alot of his competitors left. The thing is, his homegrown competitors improved and the competitors that left didn't have as much success after they left. IMO Lloyd Irvin is the greatest American BJJ coach in history.So keenan didnt have success? Ryan Hall? Jordan?
Nope those guys suck right?
Keenan- Brown belt World Champion but hasn’t placed at BB.He has beat some good guys and not saying he isn’t top tier, but hehasn’t and won’t ever win a World Title. Even though his popularity increased, his trajectory actually plateaued after he left TLI if you judge by accomplishments. He went from not winning anything to winning everything after a year at LLoyds, then easily won the Brown Belt World Championship. After leaving LLoyds, he won alot of superfights and had some big wins mainly due to his niche use of the lapel but hasn’t continued the same level of success and continuous improvement that he did at Lloyd’s.
Ryan Hall- Well liked on the internet but actually hasn’t done much at BB. His ADCC placing was based on a technicality(he lost his first match but other competitors got injured. Most of his accomplishments were at lower belts.Honestly, when you go off accomplishments at BB, Ryan Hall is the top 3 most overrated grapplers in history IMO.
Jordon- I don’t even think he has competed as a BB and don’t thinkhe even trains anymore.
According to the internet, when the group went to ATOS, they were supposed to be world beaters because supposedly ATOS offered the environment to be MORE successful. The truth is that they actually accomplished less. Out of all the people that left, only JT had the huge accomplishment of winning ADCC. Everybody else reduced their progress. On the other hand, their homegrown talent that stayed continuously improved. Lloyd is the greatest American coach in BJJ history.
lol Loyd’s the devil in crossroads… He’ll make you a champ, but you gotta sell your soul to him.
N5Z -SpiderManBJJ - When it comes to Lloyd, his attackers ignore 3 facts:1- The accused students were acquitted in the court of law when a jury actually heard the “facts” and reviewed the evidence.
2-The accused students were with him for less than a year. They trained for years at other academies prior.
3- In Lloyd’s 1990 case, the accuser’s own cousin said in court that she told him she lied.
1- carrying a drunk female to a parking lot, running a train, then leaving her on the ground unconscious(or too drunk to get up) and walking away. <— All on video. Not rape I guess.
2- What do you think that says about limp’s gym culture?
3- If your argument for #1 is "a jury found them ‘not guilty’" are you really gonna imply the other girl wasnt raped despite limp’s 4 co-rapists being convicted?
1. They sound like pieces of shit. That being said, did you see the video? Because the jury did, and they felt it wasn’t rape.
2. I don’t think it says much of anything about his gym culture because they were not long time members of his gym. One had been there a few months, the other less than a year, as I recall.
3. From what I understand, nobody served any major time despite being black defendants of a rape accusation in Virginia. Apparently, someone close to the victim came forward with evidence that led to the majority of them getting off with little time served. You can also find a jury member being quoted as saying that it was difficult to tell what had happened and that he wouldn’t fault anyone for taking either side.
misterw -N5Z -SpiderManBJJ - When it comes to Lloyd, his attackers ignore 3 facts:1- The accused students were acquitted in the court of law when a jury actually heard the “facts” and reviewed the evidence.
2-The accused students were with him for less than a year. They trained for years at other academies prior.
3- In Lloyd’s 1990 case, the accuser’s own cousin said in court that she told him she lied.
1- carrying a drunk female to a parking lot, running a train, then leaving her on the ground unconscious(or too drunk to get up) and walking away. <— All on video. Not rape I guess.
2- What do you think that says about limp’s gym culture?
3- If your argument for #1 is "a jury found them ‘not guilty’" are you really gonna imply the other girl wasnt raped despite limp’s 4 co-rapists being convicted?
1. They sound like pieces of shit. That being said, did you see the video? Because the jury did, and they felt it wasn’t rape.
2. I don’t think it says much of anything about his gym culture because they were not long time members of his gym. One had been there a few months, the other less than a year, as I recall.
3. From what I understand, nobody served any major time despite being black defendants of a rape accusation in Virginia. Apparently, someone close to the victim came forward with evidence that led to the majority of them getting off with little time served. You can also find a jury member being quoted as saying that it was difficult to tell what had happened and that he wouldn’t fault anyone for taking either side.
1- I already conceded, despite the facts of the video(which were not contested), that the jury decided it was not rape. If I remember they commented that the video was poor quality and you couldnt tell what was going on. Fine, but neither Schultz nor Maldonado denied that the girl was drunk, that they took her to the parking lot, had sex with her and left her there on the floor.
2- I am sure they were both pieces of shit before they came to loyd’s place. That said, limp’s own behavior w/ female students and the hero worship he cultivated, didnt do anything to discourage them.
3- If you are going to play the race card regarding that trial remember that the victim was also black. If there existed any preconcieved notion of guilt because the rapists were black, there was an equal ambivalence towards the rape because the victim was black.
I never trained at the gym and my dislike of irvin stems from before all this so yes, I am biased, I do know 2 people who were training there at the time it all went down. What they tell me makes me think bad things happen there and that im not judging the circumstances too harshly.
N5Z -misterw -N5Z -SpiderManBJJ - When it comes to Lloyd, his attackers ignore 3 facts:1- The accused students were acquitted in the court of law when a jury actually heard the “facts” and reviewed the evidence.
2-The accused students were with him for less than a year. They trained for years at other academies prior.
3- In Lloyd’s 1990 case, the accuser’s own cousin said in court that she told him she lied.
1- carrying a drunk female to a parking lot, running a train, then leaving her on the ground unconscious(or too drunk to get up) and walking away. <— All on video. Not rape I guess.
2- What do you think that says about limp’s gym culture?
3- If your argument for #1 is "a jury found them ‘not guilty’" are you really gonna imply the other girl wasnt raped despite limp’s 4 co-rapists being convicted?
1. They sound like pieces of shit. That being said, did you see the video? Because the jury did, and they felt it wasn’t rape.
2. I don’t think it says much of anything about his gym culture because they were not long time members of his gym. One had been there a few months, the other less than a year, as I recall.
3. From what I understand, nobody served any major time despite being black defendants of a rape accusation in Virginia. Apparently, someone close to the victim came forward with evidence that led to the majority of them getting off with little time served. You can also find a jury member being quoted as saying that it was difficult to tell what had happened and that he wouldn’t fault anyone for taking either side.
1- I already conceded, despite the facts of the video(which were not contested), that the jury decided it was not rape. If I remember they commented that the video was poor quality and you couldnt tell what was going on. Fine, but neither Schultz nor Maldonado denied that the girl was drunk, that they took her to the parking lot, had sex with her and left her there on the floor.
2- I am sure they were both pieces of shit before they came to loyd’s place. That said, limp’s own behavior w/ female students and the hero worship he cultivated, didnt do anything to discourage them.
3- If you are going to play the race card regarding that trial remember that the victim was also black. If there existed any preconcieved notion of guilt because the rapists were black, there was an equal ambivalence towards the rape because the victim was black.
I never trained at the gym and my dislike of irvin stems from before all this so yes, I am biased, I do know 2 people who were training there at the time it all went down. What they tell me makes me think bad things happen there and that im not judging the circumstances too harshly.
1. If I recall, there was some debate regarding whether the video depicted actions that indicated consensual sex. Again, doesn't mean they weren't assholes, but we seem to be in a time now when someone accused of rape is already guilty and even someone found not guilty of rape is still guilty.
2. I think you are putting too much on the instructor. These are adults. Somebody at our gym had a domestic violence incident at one point, and I can't remember thinking once that it was somehow the instructor's fault. As an aside, he was kicked out of the gym, as were the two LI students. If I had to guess, most gyms have at some point had a member who has done some shitty things.
3. I'm not playing a race card regarding the trial. My point there was that nobody served lengthy sentences DESPITE the strong potential in that time and place for an unfair trial. My "race card" playing was more in regard to the internet lynch mob that has been out in force for years with LI.
SpiderManBJJ -Silhouette -SpiderManBJJ - First American Coach to produce a Black Belt World Champion(he produced 2). There was alot of chatter a few yers ago that he was finished because alot of his competitors left. The thing is, his homegrown competitors improved and the competitors that left didn't have as much success after they left. IMO Lloyd Irvin is the greatest American BJJ coach in history.So keenan didnt have success? Ryan Hall? Jordan?
Nope those guys suck right?
Keenan- Brown belt World Champion but hasn’t placed at BB.He has beat some good guys and not saying he isn’t top tier, but hehasn’t and won’t ever win a World Title. Even though his popularity increased, his trajectory actually plateaued after he left TLI if you judge by accomplishments. He went from not winning anything to winning everything after a year at LLoyds, then easily won the Brown Belt World Championship. After leaving LLoyds, he won alot of superfights and had some big wins mainly due to his niche use of the lapel but hasn’t continued the same level of success and continuous improvement that he did at Lloyd’s.
Ryan Hall- Well liked on the internet but actually hasn’t done much at BB. His ADCC placing was based on a technicality(he lost his first match but other competitors got injured. Most of his accomplishments were at lower belts.Honestly, when you go off accomplishments at BB, Ryan Hall is the top 3 most overrated grapplers in history IMO.
Jordon- I don’t even think he has competed as a BB and don’t thinkhe even trains anymore.
According to the internet, when the group went to ATOS, they were supposed to be world beaters because supposedly ATOS offered the environment to be MORE successful. The truth is that they actually accomplished less. Out of all the people that left, only JT had the huge accomplishment of winning ADCC. Everybody else reduced their progress. On the other hand, their homegrown talent that stayed continuously improved. Lloyd is the greatest American coach in BJJ history.
You clearly are associated with LI and obviously biased if you believe Keenan and JT are worse after leaving LI. JT has gotten silver multiple times at the Worlds/Pans and obviously the gold at ADCC. Keenan’s resume speaks for itself; guy has one of the highest submission percentages ever. He’s gotten silver twice at ADCC and has medaled at the major IBJJF events. Leandro Lo or suspect reffing is his kryptonite for now. There are many reasons why people don’t medal at tournaments: injuries, reffing, bad draws. Head to head against LI guys around his size: Keenan is 6-1 against Timothy Spriggs (who seems hell bent on beating Keenan) with the last few being absolute shutout clinics and he’s 2-1 against Aly. Aly is not homegrown either. He’s a beast, but he came to join LI’s team as a brown belt.
Shane Jahil-Taylor is a straight savage. I can’t say a bad thing about him because he seems to be a humble, bright guy with a big future on and off the mats. The fact that he is getting his college degree at the same time as being a professional athlete is awesome. But just because he won Worlds last year doesn’t automatically validate LI and invalidate those who left him. Shane is a guy who started as a very young kid, clearly driven, athletic, and has a strong work ethic. He would have been successful anywhere.
What happened to other homegrown black belts like DJ, Nyjah, Spriggs? I know DJ won black belt no gi worlds but everyone knows that is not the real worlds of no gi.